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T-Mobile capable of multi-touch?

18 November 2008 by Staff Editor


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With all the recent advancements we have seen lately closing the gap between the T-mobile G1 and Apple’s iPhone, there is yet another coming through the wood work. Reports are coming in that the T-Mobile G1 is technically capable of having multi-touch. Apple fanboys now have less of an argument when it comes to comparing the two.

An intelligent coder, who goes by the name RyeBrye, has gone through the T-mobile G1 and found that the driver for the Synaptics touchscreen has some code that has been commented out. He then recompiled the kernel with this code put back in, only to find that he was able to track two separate finger presses at one time.

This does not mean we are going to have multi-touch, Android has not been written with support for multi-touch. It is a huge eye opener to see that the ability is in fact there, but why do you suppose Google did not decide to use this feature? Could it be because they wanted Android to be compatible with all types of devices, rather than having a different version for multi-touch handsets? Whatever the reason, the bright minds over at Google wouldn’t have done this without good reason. We want to know why our readers think Google left it out.
[Via MobileCrunch]

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  1. I thought Vincent already told us that it wasn't capable of multi-touch...
  2. if it really is capable than i would love to see it in action. even just that coders g1 that he said found u finger points at one time.
  3. This is just getting better and better.

    ...and how many people have bailed on the G1 already? Shame on them.
  4. Hmmm, another useless article. Everyone knows that it is capable of multi-touch, most touchscreen devices are. The reason why it have it is because Apple has it copyrighted. Another tid bit of information that 99% of Android users already know.

    Doubt you'll see a market app come out for this as it would infringe in the copyright.
  5. Well, we should have it anyway. THere SHOULD be two versions of android like there is of Winmobile.
  6. Apple patents. I think it has something to do with Apple patented "Multi-touch capability"...
    Much like Google's cloud computing patent... it is only a matter of time before they can drop the hammer on certain companies and cash in... so to prevent this I think that is why we don't have it... yet...
    What would really be awsome is for someone to make a App that reinstalls Multitouch on the G1 and utilizes G1 - "gestures" and if they make it free for G1... If my theory is true... then Apple has nothing to cash in if there is nothing to cash in on... I dunno the legalities of it all... but it would be interesting to see if G1 steps ahead again... because of its community...

    (I read that Apple tries to make products that are hard to imitate... and like many companies... one way they protect that is with patents...)
  7. Vincent's Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    I'm not sure if you're aware of this but the G1 does NOT have multi-touch like the iPhone. Yes, it does have a capacity touch display from Synaptics. Even though Synaptics’ ClearPad supports multi-touch, it is up to the OEMs (HTC) on what gestures they want to implement on the touch screens (or touchpads).

    That being said, a capacitive touch display is a thousand times better than a resistive display. Ever used the Samsung Instinct on Sprint or the HTC Diamond? Even though the Instinct's display is pretty good, scrolling is still a pain and selecting menu items is still pretty tricky. The HTC Diamond is resistive with a top glass layer. This is super nice, but it's still resistive...not very ideal for finger usage.

    I hope this clear things up for you when you.
    conflicting info....
  8. OMG! G1 is capable of mulit-touch! I have no idea!

    How come no one says this! You are the first guys to bring this information out to us!

    (end of scaresom (spelling?))

    Come on guys... you wrote the article as if we have no idea that G1 has multi-touch.

    We all know G1 is capable of multi-touch and the only reason Google did not activate it on their G1 is because of the patents Apple have.

    I am sure Google would love to have multi-touch but unable to do so. Now it's up to 3rd parties if they are willing to take on the project to make G1 capable of doing multi-touch and is willing to face a lawsuit with Apple.
  9. i dont see why google wud leave it out? its a hot feat theat was stupid if they cud have and didnt . hope there a gooooood reason .
  10. Multi-touching has already been incorporated in the Texas Hold-Em App...when its your turn...you can double tap your cards to check...I know this may be a lil trivial...but its a start i guess
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by FaceMelter View Post
    Multi-touching has already been incorporated in the Texas Hold-Em App...when its your turn...you can double tap your cards to check...I know this may be a lil trivial...but its a start i guess
    how is double tapping "multi-touch"?
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by g1ampd View Post
    i dont see why google wud leave it out? its a hot feat theat was stupid if they cud have and didnt . hope there a gooooood reason .
    I recommend you read other people's comments before posting to avoid sounding really dumb.

    By the same token, I recommend to the editors of this site to do the same cause this has been discussed extensively well before the phone was even released.

    My $0.02...
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by FaceMelter View Post
    Multi-touching has already been incorporated in the Texas Hold-Em App...when its your turn...you can double tap your cards to check...I know this may be a lil trivial...but its a start i guess
    No comments.
  14. I'll be that they didn't implement because they couldn't get it ready in time... I'll bet it's just a matter of time till it's back in the saddle... Kinda like stereo bluetooth... it's there, it's just not implemented yet...
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by akarol View Post
    Hmmm, another useless article. Everyone knows that it is capable of multi-touch, most touchscreen devices are. The reason why it have it is because Apple has it copyrighted. Another tid bit of information that 99% of Android users already know.

    Doubt you'll see a market app come out for this as it would infringe in the copyright.
    I wouldn;t say that, look at HP touch PCs - Look at Microsoft surface computing - There is obviously a lot of room for movement around apple for "multi-touch" technology..
  16. more touch interface all-around would be great

    like swiping to scroll through photos etc, its such an intuitive motion that it feels like second nature (IMO)
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by akarol View Post
    Hmmm, another useless article. Everyone knows that it is capable of multi-touch, most touchscreen devices are. The reason why it have it is because Apple has it copyrighted. Another tid bit of information that 99% of Android users already know.

    Doubt you'll see a market app come out for this as it would infringe in the copyright.
    Uhm, no. Most touchscreen devices are NOT capable of multitouch. Most touchscreen devices are resistive, meaning they use opposing gradients to come up with an X and Y resistance corresponding to location. Haven't you ever touched a screen in two places and seen the cursor go somewhere in between your fingers? (Yes, I know the G1 is capacitive and not resistive, but MOST touchscreens are resistive.)

    Also, it's not a copyright problem. It's a patent problem.

    Get your facts straight, then maybe you can make posts that contribute something.
  18. Well I can think of two reason why Google would of left this out.....

    1) The whole apple patent stuff, i mean the code was in there just commented out.... Come on now... Google was just waiting for someone to find it.

    OR

    2) Google developed everything for it so that way with the ideal in mind to be selling a new phone and on that phone they would say ewww look at this phone it has muti touch, why dont everyone come buy it... Not sure how much money they would make putting out the new handset but someone would be making money... Becuase every google fan boy would be out getting a new phoene... I know i would be
  19. you can find two different touch points with PicSay. try it on the dizzy feature. theres a slider at the bottom to create the effect on the picture above. if you just touch the picture by itself and move it, it moves around in the frame. but if you touch the slider to highlight it, and then touch and drag the picture, it lifts one layer of the picture and moves it around on top of the other layer to create the effect. its a totally different imput method accessible by touching multiple points. i can try to upload a video later but try it, it works.
  20. this phone is basically a mini computer...thats what people dont realize...hahha i mean look at the desktop...

    I think by jan 09 we will see what this phone is about. I think Google is giving iPhone all the last apps for the remainder of the year.

    I mean what else could Google give them other than a new operating system. Soon Apple will be hanging by their balls asking google to do this and that for them.

    Google will soon part from them and only focus on Android. Google isnt fooling anyone but the iphone users because in due time they will give a rats ass about them and only focus on android. WATCH and SEE.

    completely off topic but I mean I could have told you guys months ago the phone had multi touch, I mean why couldn't it, it all is software based when you think about it...since the screen is capacity based it isnt hard to pick up two screen taps and somehow figure out the distance between the two points.

    VTech computer engineer here...

    ...amd I like how google is using the parallax feature on the desktop, which really is a linux desktop on a small device...and before you know it, this thing will probably have a larger ram and etc
  21. yes, as many of u r saying most ppl already know there is no hardware limitation for multi-touch, and yes apple has it copyrighted. BUT, if a programmer was to modify the driver, and somehow incorporate it in the UI, then it im pretty sure apple couldnt do anything about it as long as the programmer doesnt make any money/profit from making this modification, and under the rights of the app market, this modification would be allowed in the app market as well
  22. Like the previous poster said, Surface has multi-touch. Tablet PCs have multi-touch don't they? So this isn't an apple patent that's stopping it is it? I'm betting it's like stereo bluetooth, the ability is there, but they ran out of time to get the API right. Which I appreciate, I'd rather wait for a good API than have a bad one now.

    Edit: "Patent experts contacted by Wired.com stressed that the patent office can take four or more years to grant patents, and Apple is far from certain to win these patents. Indeed, other companies, including BenQ-Siemens and Nokia, have also filed patent applications on a series of gestures and touch applications for multitouch devices. However, with more than 200 patent claims for the iPhone alone, including several multitouch-related patent applications, Apple is clearly seeking to control as much of the multitouch world as it can."

    http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscell...itouch_patents
  23. @bhains - not sure where I read it (here or another forum) but supposedly there are two types of capacitive screens (one capable of multitouch and one not). Apparently HTC insisted on no multitouch for G1 in order to reserve the right to use one or the other type screen for G1 (depending on which is a better deal at the time).

    Also, Synaptec owns the patents for multitouch screen, while Apple holds pattents for the GESTURES used on iPhone.

    My thoughts exactly on minicomputer... but I think you are underestimating Apple. Remember, the iPhone is up for a hardware and software refresh next year as well, so who knows what it will bring to the table, but one thing is for sure... don't expect them to stand still.
  24. Corect, me if i'm worng, but isn't "Surface" use different kind of technology to, pick up multi touch, isn't it more like cam/sensor cam based sytems, not capactive?
  25. I don't see how the gestures can legally be patented anyway. It doesn't make much sense. I think I'm going to try to patent the wave, salute and middle finger, see what happens.
  26. Quote:
    Originally Posted by secrecyguy View Post
    OMG! G1 is capable of mulit-touch! I have no idea!

    How come no one says this! You are the first guys to bring this information out to us!

    (end of scaresom (spelling?))

    Come on guys... you wrote the article as if we have no idea that G1 has multi-touch.

    We all know G1 is capable of multi-touch and the only reason Google did not activate it on their G1 is because of the patents Apple have.

    I am sure Google would love to have multi-touch but unable to do so. Now it's up to 3rd parties if they are willing to take on the project to make G1 capable of doing multi-touch and is willing to face a lawsuit with Apple.
    The G1 is NOT capable of multi-touch. I don't know where this "everybody knows" crap comes from.
    Synaptics touch screens have multi-touch capability, IF the manufacturer ordering the hardware pays extra to have the gestures supported on the equipment.


    Multi-touch is determined by the Enhanced Gesture Recognition, and a multi-touch screen requires more system resources. Since the API does not include multi-touch at this time, the EGR for multi-touch would only cost HTC more and use up additional resources that are not required for the system.

    http://www.synaptics.com/solutions/technology/gestures
    http://www.synaptics.com/solutions/t...y/gestures/egr
    and even a PDF on it:
    http://www.synaptics.com/sites/defau...estures_pb.pdf

    Even if Android plans to offer a multi-touch system they would roll out new hardware capable of it at that time, leaving previous hardware that does not meet the requirements on previous builds.

    Look...I promise you...the HTC Dream, The T-Mobile G1 will NEVER be capable of multi-touch. At least not the one you are holding in your hand. They could produce new ones I suppose, but I'm sure they'll just move on to a new model.

    As much as we talk about it, try to understand patent law, or show YouTube videos of people double tapping their solitare game (wtf?), it won't happen.

    And that's OK. It's still a great phone.

    Read the links.

    Like John Stamos says...the more you know.
    And then a star shoots across the screen
  27. From Synaptics for those who'd prefer not to visit:

    "EGR gives customers THE OPTION to enable single-finger gestures (i.e., Tap, Double Tap, Pinch, Press, and Flick) as well as multi-finger gestures (e.g., Pinch) directly from Synaptics' touch module. NO ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE RECOGNITION IS REQUIRED on the host processor to implement these gestures."

    This says that if the manufacturer wants a Synaptics pad with multi-touch, they can pay for it and have it. And Android wouldn't really have to do much to take advantage of it.

    "Gestures have to be fine tuned for (and integrated with) the specific types of devices that they control. "

    The HTC Dream/T-Mobile G1 did NOT integrate these features.
  28. Quote:
    Originally Posted by ministersin View Post
    From Synaptics for those who'd prefer not to visit:

    "EGR gives customers THE OPTION to enable single-finger gestures (i.e., Tap, Double Tap, Pinch, Press, and Flick) as well as multi-finger gestures (e.g., Pinch) directly from Synaptics' touch module. NO ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE RECOGNITION IS REQUIRED on the host processor to implement these gestures."

    This says that if the manufacturer wants a Synaptics pad with multi-touch, they can pay for it and have it. And Android wouldn't really have to do much to take advantage of it.

    "Gestures have to be fine tuned for (and integrated with) the specific types of devices that they control. "

    The HTC Dream/T-Mobile G1 did NOT integrate these features.
    The EGR stuff is done in the hardware, yeah, and they supposedly have an easy way to get at it - but since the phone gives us two fingers and tracks their positions anyway - it's not rocket science to implement multi-touch without having Synaptics spoon feed gestures to us.

    I'm not quite sure how you think that quoting random marketing pages about what Synaptics says about the capabilities of their screens would trump what an actual person with access to the G1's actual hardware can show with basic tweaking of the driver.

    I've proven in the debug logs that the phone tracks two fingers independently. I've shown a basic hackish implementation using the most quick-and-dirty-way possible I could find to show it being used...

    Perhaps you should stop reading marketing materials and start looking at the actual device? Or maybe listening to people who spend their spare time hacking away at these devices?
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