Since the first day we heard about Google’s Android platform we have been waiting for the open source phone that allows us to customize it just as we like. It seems now that the first Android-powered handset has been released we have all been a bit disappointed. We have quickly been able to make progress with gaining root access on the T-Mobile G1.
It seems just as quickly as we got root access, Google has come up with a way to prevent it. Jay Freeman (saurik), the man responsible for Cydia and many other amazing developments on the iPhone, has successfully gotten Debian running on the G1. Debian is a free open source OS that is usually used on a computer. Debian on the G1 will allow you to do a lot more than Android is allowing so far. The best part is that it will not at all affect your phones functionality.
With this breakthrough it opens the door to so many opportunities, such as putting a video recording application on the G1. There are instructions for those of you who are brave enough to give it a try, you can find instructions on Jay Freeman’s site.
[Via Saurik]
read his blog and everything
i want video on how this works on the G1
gosh im so lost haha
If you _want_ that, then you've got it and you're golden (assuming you do all of this before RC30 hits, as you no longer have the ability to set it up, since you can't be root anymore).
If you _don't_ want that, then don't perform the operations he specifies.
Second, I can think of a few good reasons for running a more or less 'normal' Linux distro on a G1. But I can think of a lot more good reasons not to.
Let's just say I think Android is a very good adaptation of Linux for the purpose intended, much better than even Mobile LInux, with lotsa future potential. Debian (or Unbuntu or Mandriva or CentOS - pick any disktop distro) is not well adapted for mobile use. Expect lotsa problems.
In fact, I would think Android has a better chance of evolving into a good desktop OS than Debian does of evolving into a good mobile OS.
I've used Linux for a long time and always will. But I'm not even the least bit tempted to try this. A lot more disadvantages than advantages.
71CH wrote:
After reading the source article, it appears that Debian and Android would be running side-by-side.... I'm not sure I understand what they're doing there.... is it merely chrooted?
I agree, there's more likelihood (and benefit) of porting Android to desktop than Linux to handheld, but that's not the point. We learn by doing. We may not get anything useful out of *this* but who knows what we might learn by doing this that we may use elsewhere?
I applaud the effort, myself, but I don't plan on trying it until I see that Debian has apps to turn my newly rewritten cellphone BACK INTO a cellphone so I can continue using the PHONE in it.
However...
What would be FAR more useful to me is (1) root access, even if I DON'T ever use it, and (2) the ability to edit my screen to do different icons, different text fonts, etc.
Now, I guess I'm gonna hafta go google Amarok and Compiz to see what these are... I keep reading posts about them like they're some kind of Cocaine for nerds but I've never really paid them any attention...
Check it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w#
They'll have to do some SERIOUS squeezing to fit all THAT in our box... but it sure is pretty!
*drool*
Wait... I have a 64-bit AMD Athlon running at over 2 GHz with 2 GB of RAM... I should be able to get that working on my box!
Awesome!
Anyway, this is cool. Debian was the distro that I learned Linux on. I look forward to seeing the progress on this.
p.s. I'd like to hold Jay Freeman to his comment about developing on the G1.
Our G1 is about to change. For those of us from the iPhone world we know jay made the iphone a fun toy.
Thank you lord.
In fact, I would think Android has a better chance of evolving into a good desktop OS than Debian does of evolving into a good mobile OS.
I've used Linux for a long time and always will. But I'm not even the least bit tempted to try this. A lot more disadvantages than advantages.
Android is designed to do this. If you look at Android it entirely sandboxes itself into /system, /data, and /cache, none of which are part of the standard Unix directory hierarchy. This means you can throw all of Debian and all of Android on there and never will the two ever conflict.
This is /not/ about replacing the GUI, replacing the applications, trying to get some crazy alternative cellular stack, using desktop bluetooth, or any other "he installed Debian onto his phone?" insanity. This is just a matter of taking the following statement to its conclusion: I am carrying around a computer with me, it has a 600MHz processor and a QWERTY keyboard, it has up to 16GB of disk space, and all I'm running on it is a phone?...
Imagine being able to easily pop out nmap and figure out what the IP of the computer you are connecting to is, or quickly rsync some files from your office server to your phone (and even maintain all the permissions, something that wouldn't be possible if you just tried to copy it onto the vFAT SD card), or run your compiles and performance tests rapidly on the device itself without having to continually redeploy your applications to the device over the USB cable.
Seriously, the possibilities here are endless and there is no cost. My method of installation doesn't even make permanent modifications to the phone (everything is on the SD card or exists as changes to the RAM mounted / that by definition gets reset every bootup). /Comparing/ Debian to Android is simply fundamentally the wrong paradigm: put your hands together.
Good seeing Jay working on Android too btw!
Good seeing Jay working on Android too btw!
Anyway, this is cool. Debian was the distro that I learned Linux on. I look forward to seeing the progress on this.
Our G1 is about to change. For those of us from the iPhone world we know jay made the iphone a fun toy.
Thank you lord.
p.s. I'd like to hold Jay Freeman to his comment about developing on the G1.
Most of the advantages of Debian are not about it being a graphical desktop operating system, they are about it being a strong set of console applications and daemons that make it into a good server. For the same reason that people are excited by ConnectBot (the awesome SSH client in Android Market), people are to be interested in this: you don't use ConnectBot to run word on some remote computer, you use ConnectBot to run vim or emacs or some other console-based text editor on some remote computer (and probably not for terribly long).
Also, this entirely ignores the interest in being able to SSH into the device. When you are working on rather advanced software, such as hooking display routines for something like a theming engine, doing performance critical hardware work like a real-time encoded video recorder, or just poking around and having fun learning about a system, it is incredibly useful to be "on the device", and by "on the device" I mean sitting at my laptop, using it as a giant keyboard and screen (a dumb terminal) connected over PuTTY or some other SSH client into the phone, running all my software there.
I will say that, for example: I did /all/ the development work on Cycorder (the real-time video recorder for the iPhone) "on" the device. I ran my text editor on the device, I compiled on the device, I debugged on the device, and I even did the reverse engineering work I had to do on the device. Of course, I was sitting at my laptop the entire time (well, except for one multi-hour long presentation I sat through, where I actually /did/ type out a massive new feature on the tiny iPhone on-screen keyboard, but I digress ;P), typing on my giant keyboard, but feeding all the directions to the phone.
The reasons this is advantageous are numerous. Sometimes its just difficult to understand what you are doing in a different context, such as the theming engine (if it even works at all). Sometimes you are dealing with particular performance characteristics that make no sense in an emulator (like video encoding). Sometimes you simply can't use an emulator as the emulator doesn't emulate the hardware (like hardware JPEG compressors or video cameras). Doing your development, therefore, running all the tools on your desktop means you have to constantly be transferring end results around, which is just slow/tedious.
So yes, you can easily hold me to that comment, I'm already doing it, and I've been doing similar things for years, on the iPhone now and on previous embedded devices running Linux for clients in the past. ;P
Thanks for all the explanation. I think we all have a better idea why you did the Debian install and where you're going with it. I admit to not doing much more than skimming over it, enough to get it that you were installing Debian along with Android, not in place of it. But I'm not a developer and not so bright anyway, and it went past me exactly what the point of that was. Now I do get it. I shoulda given it a little more thought before posting, after reading your posts it seems kinda obvious now.
Again, thanks. The future of Android looks good.
The reasons this is advantageous are numerous. Sometimes its just difficult to understand what you are doing in a different context, such as the theming engine (if it even works at all). Sometimes you are dealing with particular performance characteristics that make no sense in an emulator (like video encoding). Sometimes you simply can't use an emulator as the emulator doesn't emulate the hardware (like hardware JPEG compressors or video cameras)....P
(j/k)
Hi saurik,
I donated $10 via paypal to you because I loved your work on Winterboard and Cydia. Thanks for making the iPhone so much better than what Apple only allowed with their strict rules. Looking forward to anything you can whip up for Android.
BTW, as far as Video Recording, check this article out (specifically the "Video" section) as maybe that will affect your work... just an FYI and something to look into.
If I get really antsy, I might go for it.
Well, then! You obviously haven't installed Pac-Man yet!