Apple DOES NOT own multi-touch. Legal impossibility.

[sullitf]

Apple can't own all multi-touch technology, it is legally impossible. You can have patents for physical hardware and you can have patents for specific software (like the multi-sensing API Stanovoy mentioned) but thats it. As far as hardware goes, it isn't too difficult to re-invent the wheel. Patenting software is a tricky and kind of fuzzy subject because while you can patent specific code you can not patent the concept in general. You are only in any legal danger if your solution is pretty much the exact same as the patented one. Even then, you are only in violation of a software patent if it can be proven that you built software directly based on theirs; if you come to the same conclusion on your own you have just as much right to it as they do.

My guess is that either:
a) google didn't want to bother with the possible legal hassles brough about by Apple (even though Google would not be doing anything wrong I bet Apple would attempt to sue)
b) Android is designed to be used on a wide variety of devices; while the G1 may be capable of multi-touch, it is not directly enabled and catered to the G1 but will be possible with new software
c) seeing as google is still working on a touch-screen enabled keyboard, multi-touch may still be a little ways down their to-do list

[Helloxd]

I think there will be an update for multitap sooner or later

[Stanovoy]

Apple can't own all multi-touch technology, it is legally impossible. You can have patents for physical hardware and you can have patents for specific software (like the multi-sensing API Stanovoy mentioned) but thats it. As far as hardware goes, it isn't too difficult to re-invent the wheel. Patenting software is a tricky and kind of fuzzy subject because while you can patent specific code you can not patent the concept in general. You are only in any legal danger if your solution is pretty much the exact same as the patented one. Even then, you are only in violation of a software patent if it can be proven that you built software directly based on theirs; if you come to the same conclusion on your own you have just as much right to it as they do.

My guess is that either:
a) google didn't want to bother with the possible legal hassles brough about by Apple (even though Google would not be doing anything wrong I bet Apple would attempt to sue)
b) Android is designed to be used on a wide variety of devices; while the G1 may be capable of multi-touch, it is not directly enabled and catered to the G1 but will be possible with new software
c) seeing as google is still working on a touch-screen enabled keyboard, multi-touch may still be a little ways down their to-do list

I agree, and just would like to clarify a few things for others. Software must be patented as business methods. To circumvent a 101 objection, the elements of the method must not be something a human would do naturally. For example:

A method to convey information to a user, comprising:
letting the user see a plurality of information; and
causing the user to interpret the plurality of information.

would not be patentable. However, it gets murky and allowable under 101 when you change it to:

A method to convey information to a user, comprising:
displaying a plurality of information to a user;
wherein the plurality of information contains words in an arrangement that is comprehensive to the user.

Of course, the above claim is not patentable for obvious reasons. I'm just trying to make a point.

As for the "arriving at the same result" part, the result is irrelevant to an infringement claim under law. So what sullitf was saying is that even if the results might be the same, as long as your software does not do each and every element of a patented claim, you will not be in infringement.

[embrace LB]

Folks I know this might stir up some controversies however, I just stumbled upon some evidence that the G1 is hardware capable of mutli-touch or pinch to zoom.

First of, for the iphone lovers out there I would like to reiterate that Apple did not invent the pinch to zoom. It was a company called Synaptics, you can find this technology on your good old laptop called the touchpad.

However, Apple did copy these gestures ( Not the technology because the iphone sensors is glass and not plastic unlike the touchpads ) as they always do, and put on the iphone and itouch and called it "multi-touch" and patented the hell out of it from the mouth of Steve Jobs.

By the way Synaptics is part of 34 companies that make up the Open Handset Alliance.


PLEASE CLICK ON THIS LINK ------> http://www.synaptics.com/solutions/t...tures/touchpad
The video is the 3rd one down.


YouTube - T-Mobile G1 Multi-Touch Demo Part 3
T-Mobile G1 (Multi-touch demo)

endless possibilities, eventually we should have multi-touch ! i hope.

[Stanovoy]

Yeah, I will look into Synaptics' patent status tomorrow. Steve Jobs likes to talk. Unfortunately, this time, it's not backed by anything substantial, it seems.

As for that video, it's hard to tell whether that's multi-touch or basic center of mass calculation. A touch sensitive surface can sense an area of differing resistance or some other change. Based on that information, it calculates the approximate center of mass. That center of mass is then translated into the tip of a mouse pointer, or the equivalent thereof.

When multiple positions are touched, the area of change becomes bigger, and the center of mass shifts. That would cause the mouse to move to a point that is roughly in between the two fingers.

In a true multi-touch, the surface is lined with at least another set of sensors. Their only purpose is to detect breaks in changes. For example, two fingered configurations will probably trigger one of those detectors, and the system will see that the giant blob of change is not continuous across the plane. From there, it can estimate where each finger actually is. This is the reason why when you keep your fingers super close on the iPhone and move only a tiny bit, the system does not respond to it; but when you keep your fingers apart and move a tiny bit, the system instantly reacts to it.

[Hardcache]

[QUOTE=sullitf;58620]Apple can't own all multi-touch technology, it is legally impossible."

Ha ha ha... was surfing around and enjoyed finding this 'research' - embarrassing now of course - but two years ago this is the kind of BS that makes forums so fun.