Do applications/games end when closed?

[Orange Crush]

The security model of the OS precludes a third-party app being able to end other processes. It needs root access which can only be attained by some sort of exploit or if Google themselves released something.

[stryker]

I think this is default behaviour for android. When you minimise a program its state gets saved to storage and the app closes, however all apps in this state can be pulled back up by the task manager (long press on home key). While an app is suspended it should not be using anything in resources.

Thinking in "windows" does not really apply to android.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it was a long time since I read the specs on android but I remember being impressed by this approach.

[PixelHenge]

they were talking about this in another thread: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f...926/#post63380

richard said: "For example, the requests for a "kill switch" or "task manager". I'm sure people are requesting this because they are familiar with using it on other platforms. However on Android, at best it would do nothing, in most cases it would actually make things worse by taking away resources from the VM that runs the apps."


Heres what i was asking: "As Ive read you stated this in several other threads. OK, i get that its Linux based and it doesn't run like other platforms and that the system itself is suppose to intelligently allocate resources... but well, if its so efficient on its own and thus no task manager is necessary. How come some of the larger games and apps wont run until i have rebooted the phone and the only thing showing in the task switcher app is "home"- if theres like 9 things showing in that program, most larger apps will crash with a process error. This indicates that there is not the system resources available to run the app, so rebooting the phone seems to be the only way to clear the other tasks enough to allow the program to load."

I would really like to know the answer how its actually suppose to work and why it seems not to.

[Crashdamage]

All this makes me think of one of the most common questions Linux n00bs ask: "Why is Linux using all of my memory?" Well, because it's supposed to. Linux is far ahead of Windoze in memory management. It will use all available memory (why waste it?), doling it out to various processes as needed.

Android makes proper use of this capability, suspending apps to memory until they are used again. This enables instant re-start of an app in the exact state it was last in without wasting system resources. It has no effect whatever on battery life or operation of apps currently in use. IMHO, very intelligent design, and why the Android developers correctly did not include a task manager. What for?

Regarding reboots, again, don't think in Windoze terms. Linux never needs a reboot unless a OS update requires it, which for Linux usually would be only if the kernel itself is updated. It will happily run for months, even years without a reboot while "using" all available memory. I had a Linux mail server run untouched for 3 years, 'til the CPU fan finally seized. Similarly, restarting an Android phone should never be necessary, except if an OS update requires it. Mine ran perfectly from the time I got it Oct 21 'til it automatically restarted after the OTA update a couple of days ago.

If an app refuses to start until everything is cleared out by restarting the phone, the fault is almost certainly with the app, not Android or the G1 itself. Somehow the non-starting app is not communicating properly with the OS. IOW, the app is not properly telling it "Hey gimme some space!" So, instead of complaining about Android or the G1, anyone having such problems should very likely be complaining to the apps' author.

[PixelHenge]

All this makes me think of one of the most common questions Linux n00bs ask: "Why is Linux using all of my memory?" Well, because it's supposed to. Linux is far ahead of Windoze in memory management. It will use all available memory (why waste it?), doling it out to various processes as needed.

Android makes proper use of this capability, suspending apps to memory until they are used again. This enables instant re-start of an app in the exact state it was last in without wasting system resources. It has no effect whatever on battery life or operation of apps currently in use. IMHO, very intelligent design, and why the Android developers correctly did not include a task manager. What for?

Regarding reboots, again, don't think in Windoze terms. Linux never needs a reboot unless a OS update requires it, which for Linux usually would be only if the kernel itself is updated. It will happily run for months, even years without a reboot while "using" all available memory. I had a Linux mail server run untouched for 3 years, 'til the CPU fan finally seized. Similarly, restarting an Android phone should never be necessary, except if an OS update requires it. Mine ran perfectly from the time I got it Oct 21 'til it automatically restarted after the OTA update a couple of days ago.

If an app refuses to start until everything is cleared out by restarting the phone, the fault is almost certainly with the app, not Android or the G1 itself. Somehow the non-starting app is not communicating properly with the OS. IOW, the app is not properly telling it "Hey gimme some space!" So, instead of complaining about Android or the G1, anyone having such problems should very likely be complaining to the apps' author.

But if this is true, how come it has even done this and required a restart even with native programs after a day of use? While i had my g1, i think i had to restart it about 2-3 times a day because of the crash with the process, in native and 3rd party apps. I mean, i understand the theory of how linux works in contrast to windows and such- but wht i'm saying, it doesnt seem to work that well in use so far- atleast not on this platform build off linux kernal. I think thats why so many people are asking for "task managers", they are experiancing the same issues.

And its not just one or two apps that do this- its ANY system intensive app. Anything with alot of graphics, or data to load, or anything like that.

[Crashdamage]

PixelHenge wrote:

But if this is true, how come it has even done this and required a restart...i had to restart it about 2-3 times a day because of the crash with the process...

You're still thinking in Windoze terms. You didn't need to restart due to a problem with the OS. You needed to restart (or thought you did) due to a problem with a process, i.e. an app. Linux is super-stable, almost nothing will take down the OS. Apps (processes) may crash, but the OS will always stay up. So again, this is almost certainly an apps problem, not an OS problem.

Anything with a lot of graphics, or data to load, or anything like that (may barf).

If it was just due to loading lots of graphics, etc. then the browser would fail before almost anything else. Again, I think it's a failure of apps to properly request the OS for room to work, not the OS or hardware.

I've had no such problems. Oh, apps have crashed or failed to load, usually due to connection trouble, but I've never needed to reboot or wished for a task manager. Android handles everything as it should. Maybe it's because I'm a longtime Linux user and understand how it's supposed to work, but I'm generally very pleased with my G1 and impressed with Android.

[PixelHenge]

PixelHenge wrote:
You're still thinking in Windoze terms. You didn't need to restart due to a problem with the OS. You needed to restart (or thought you did) due to a problem with a process, i.e. an app. Linux is super-stable, almost nothing will take down the OS. Apps (processes) may crash, but the OS will always stay up. So again, this is almost certainly an apps problem, not an OS problem.

If it was just due to loading lots of graphics, etc. then the browser would fail before almost anything else. Again, I think it's a failure of apps to properly request the OS for room to work, not the OS or hardware.

I've had no such problems. Oh, apps have crashed or failed to load, usually due to connection trouble, but I've never needed to reboot or wished for a task manager. Android handles everything as it should. Maybe it's because I'm a longtime Linux user and understand how it's supposed to work, but I'm generally very pleased with my G1 and impressed with Android.

No, i really do understand how its suppose to work, soon as i heard of it on android i started reading- I think after i learn a little more about getting to run some windows only programs to run on linux based OS i might even switch my next desktop to that.

But what im saying is on the android platform itself, apps (native and 3rd party) crash if its trying to load alot of system intensive stuff, such as graphics and data. i know its just the app itself crashing, not the OS, but the app is based IN the OS and i have experianced this in multiple instances. Say like, i try to load an app, i get the "proccess failed to load" error, and agian and agian. I reboot the phone, loads no problem. I leave the app, do something else for a while, come back- proccess error.

I'm not die-hard anything, i grew up with mac, so i get both- i just like windows better for my needs right now (plus i like building my own computers). No, i dont know that much about linux, but how else am i other tha asking?

Just, ok, win me over to linux.. Tell me what exactly the app IS NOT doing and how an issue like this could be solved, or what suggestions can be made to the developers of 15+ apps with this problem. Like i said, it dose this in native apps too. Like Maps will throw up this error if previously i was browsing, playing a game, checking email ect... but not if i reboot.

Basically what i was saying was that with with happening all the time it would look like the error is in the coding of allocations to apps (if thats the right discription).

I know linux on another device does this fine, but i didnt seem to be doing it well on android.

So explain it at length?

[Crashdamage]

PixelHenge wrote:

I think after i learn a little more about getting to run some windows only programs to run on linux based OS i might even switch my next desktop to that.

Many ways now to run Windoze stuff in Linux - Wine, Win4LinPro, Virtualbox, VMWare, etc. etc. Google will give a lot of info. I use Win4LInPro myself, but it's not one of the free options. There's native Linux equivelents for most Win programs - try to find and use 'em.

If you make a move to Linux, be prepared. Do some reading. Lose all Windoze-based preconceptions about how things are supposed to work. Linux ain't Windoze - it's better, but it's different. Try at least a couple of the "Live" boot 'n run-from CD versions so you can try Linux first without making any changes to your computer. They'll run a bit slow 'cause they're running off the CD instead of the hard drive, but you'll get the idea of what they're like. If one Linux distro doesn't play nice with your hardware, try another - the Live CD's make it easy. I'm running CentOS 5.2 (free version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux) but it's not really for beginners. Try maybe Mandriva, Fedora or Unbuntu.

i know its just the app itself crashing, not the OS, but the app is based IN the OS...

Actually, apps are running ON the OS, not IN the OS.

i try to load an app, i get the "proccess failed to load" error, and agian and agian. I reboot the phone, loads no problem.

I really haven't had that problem. I never reboot. Don't know what to say...

Tell me what exactly the app IS NOT doing and how an issue like this could be solved...it would look like the error is in the coding of allocations to apps (if thats the right discription).

That's basically my suspicion, yeah, but I'm no developer or programmer so I can't go into more detail for you.

[PixelHenge]

Ya, ive started the lessions on linux.org... And sorry about the syntax- ok ON, i figured the typos woulda been more worry.

I'm building a new desktop right now to stop relying on my laptop, and was thinking linux next, but i GOT to have my oblivion (no linux version that i know of) and most of the plug-ins i need in photoshop are windows only too- so i'm assuming id need a windows version of photoshop to usethem as well... ill have to keep reading, see if theres a solution.

As far as the rebooting, ya, i've known alot more people than myself with this issue- lucky you.

But ya, when i ask devs about it- who also happen to be linux nuts, the basic answer i get is "it just works" and i wanna know why and how and may i could get an idea why it does that on my phone. Windows functions i know like the back of my hand- no it isnt very effecient, i have to go manually clean out the registry avery so often and "quit proccess tree" much of the time, but i know how it works... so an answer like "it just works" always sound like balony to me. So sorry... I wasnt trying to insult you, i just keep hearing this about android, and in practice the opposite seems true- i just want to reconcile the two and see if i can figure it out.

[robmpulse]

If what is stated above is true, then explain to me why my phone is faster (surfing through the menus, loading new programs, and changing from screen to screen after i reboot.

But after running several programs, the mentioned above items tend to slow down and get "notchy"