Regarding emulated games on the G1 ( nesoid/ snesoid/ gensoid/ etc)

[gaidensensei]

Hey, just a general question and/or looking for feedback.

No, this is not a rant on the fees of downloading the emulators on the market that will play the games for the specified systems. I already have one of the emulators purchased.

What I'm wondering about is the licensing of the emulators that's been programmed for the G1.
Are they using existing open source code from other released windows-based platform emulators out there?
So far I only know of Gensoid / Nesoid / Snesoid that is out there on the market.

For example the widely acclaimed ZSNES for SNES emulation, Nes9x, Genesis-plus are all known to be freeware software with the source code out.

If any G1 developers are using existing source code and converting it into android OS form, and charging for it, isn't this considered not just unethical, but illegal?


Because, I'm raised with some questions before I even try to attempt to follow through with these emulators - I've been a guy with emulation all my life, but when I see stuff like only a single developer who gets G1 emulation out faster than Windows-based developers who start from scratch, ends up charging people to download it (if he/she/they did not create the code from scratch) something's just not clicking right with me.

The price tag isn't a concern to me, it could even be $0.25 cents and I'd still raise this question. It has to do with ethics..

[konzern]

its not like he just renamed znes and charged for it cuz theres more to it than just that DONT U THINK? i mean if that was the case couldnt u just download the emulator from the web and start using it?

the dude deserves to get paid for making it work right on the android platform. and about it being unethical and illegal using emulators in general is illegal. if u download roms from the web its illegal u have to have the game to download the roms.

now tell me do u have every single game of every single rom u have ever downloaded? if u dont, dont u think thats unethical and illegal?

[gaidensensei]

If any developer is doing what I'm thinking has been done, it's called porting in programming sense. Porting source codes costs nothing except free time to make sure it works flawlessly by first downloading someone else's code!

For example, the reason why it the Zsnes x86 platform doesn't work on G1 is because obviously the operating system is different. Then, the ZSNES source code is already available in Linux, free of charge to download at their site. Since the Android is closely related to the Linux Kernel, I'd imagine porting isn't that much of a big feat provided you have some spare time!

Let's hopefully not turn this discussion into a talk about ethics and ad hominem attacks with other users who might not have owned cartridges and games that they downloaded; for we don't know how everyone's personality is.

Personally I only play emulated games that I own in real life, because of the step-up ability emulation is able to provide.
I own the popular games that I want to try emulated, like the Squaresoft releases, street fighters, etc so it's a concern to me. I can't speak for anyone else, though.

Edit:
Well, if the developer took like say, 5 months to get the release out, I could see it as a somewhat acceptable reason to charge two Washingtons for it, provided that he must release the source as well. But if it took like, say, 1-2 days or few weeks or so, and doesn't even bother updating/working it out, then that's seriously wrong.

[ickyfehmleh]

...
If any G1 developers are using existing source code and converting it into android OS form, and charging for it, isn't this considered not just unethical, but illegal?
...

Ponder this: one needs to willingly and knowingly violate the law in order to use such an emulator the way it's intended to be used. People that engage in the stealing of games are rarely concerned about things as trivial as using publicly available source code without thanking the original authors.

[deserttopping]

so is nintendo breathing down google's neck for having this in the market?

speculation?

[ickyfehmleh]

so is nintendo breathing down google's neck for having this in the market?

speculation?

I think Nintendo is far too busy counting the money they've made from the Wii. However, just because Nintendo isn't breaking down anyone's doors or having a US marshall bring one's father back into the house in a bearhug with two attorneys following doesn't make it any less illegal.

I expect a huge poopstorm should someone figure out how to get an illegally obtained ROM to work in the Wii's Virtual Console.

[JaceMan]

What I'm wondering about is the licensing of the emulators that's been programmed for the G1.

Are they using existing open source code from other released windows-based platform emulators out there?
...

For example the widely acclaimed ZSNES for SNES emulation, Nes9x, Genesis-plus are all known to be freeware software with the source code out.

...

If any G1 developers are using existing source code and converting it into android OS form, and charging for it, isn't this considered not just unethical, but illegal?

I guess the heart of your query is really just your last paragraph. The answer to to the unethical question is, "No." The answer to the illegal question is, "No."

It is neither unethical or illegal to use code (depending on the license, and most allow for this) from an open source project in a commercial application. It is only illegal to use the code without giving credit (depending on the license the original source uses) and providing access (again depending on license of the original code) to the source code you used.

So in reality, the questions of legalities and ethics come down to whatever code was borrowed and what license (GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc.) that code was released under. There are some licenses that would make using code from a project in this way illegal, but to group all of them under the same blanket would be unwise.

[deserttopping]

I think Nintendo is far too busy counting the money they've made from the Wii. However, just because Nintendo isn't breaking down anyone's doors or having a US marshall bring one's father back into the house in a bearhug with two attorneys following doesn't make it any less illegal.

I expect a huge poopstorm should someone figure out how to get an illegally obtained ROM to work in the Wii's Virtual Console.

i just thought maybe it was more internal, like:

Nintendo: Hey, Google, we'd like to partner with you on some nameless-interesting-future-project. Oh by the way, could you block that NES emulator from your market?

Google: Duck off, you fick.

that video was funny.

[gaidensensei]

I think Nintendo is far too busy

I agree with that, this is some small-fry thing/division for nintendo to even bother hounding. There's like nothing to gain from it, and I highly doubt the percentage of people who play emulated nintendo games on the android is going to dent their market earnings.

...
So in reality, the questions of legalities and ethics come down to whatever code was borrowed and what license (GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc.) that code was released under.
...

Right on, you seem to have hit it on the spot for a general answer. I'm not too sure of the specifics of say, zsnes's license guidelines and what it contains; as I'm not a vigilant stickler for the laws..
Rather, much more curious over how it could've been a single dude/dudette who ported over 3 major consoles for the G1 without running into legalities!

PS. I think you gotta edit your sig statement now, I felt like I was just helped, haha.

[Loafy03]

I guess the heart of your query is really just your last paragraph. The answer to to the unethical question is, "No."

I'd say that's a matter of opinion. I'd definintely say it's unethical to take someone else's (free) source, tweak it to "port" it, and charge for it. That's letting someone else do 99% of the work and you get to get paid for it because you decide to? The amount of original code or completely rewritten code would pale in comparison to the original source. Why should the person porting get all of the proceeds and the original devs none?

A little digging shows the ZSNES source is released under GPL. From GNU's website :

Developers who write software can release it under the terms of the GNU GPL. When they do, it will be free software and stay free software, no matter who changes or distributes the program. We call this copyleft: the software is copyrighted, but instead of using those rights to restrict users like proprietary software does, we use them to ensure that every user has freedom.

I'd say charging for an emu based upon someone else's source definitely violates the above guidelines.