A Distressing sign of things to come?

[Gigaflop]

Preface: I love my G1.

I am however distressed. We've had several updates pushed OTA so far, and it seems google is EXTREMELY quick to update holes and hacks, but less inclined to add features or patch bugs.

Yes, this phone is new, and yes I'm an early adopter.

However, I am starting to feel like a second class citizen.

I ask the question, does Google actually expect the Android platform to have a future? To be a success? Or was the intention to be a disruptive technology?

Does Android have Google's backing, or is this just some pet project that they are expecting to have a niche market like Linux?

When the G1 launched, and it had the best version of Google maps on the market, I got excited. Perhaps google will put their best efforts for the platform.

But a few weeks later, where are we?

1) iphone receives Google Earth. This can simply be the result of being in development longer, but it begs the question, when they were working on it, weren't they also working on Android, and why wouldn't they have a release available simultaneously?

2) iphone receives an update to google maps, that not only adds street view, but also adds public transportation routes and has a superior interface to the Android adaptation. Again, why no simultaneous update for Android?

3) iphone has massive announcement of voice recognition software made by google. Where is the announcement for Android?

I use many of the google services, and oddly I assumed that if I had an OS made by google, I would recieve the latest and greatest version of their services, but it is starting to become apparent that I perhaps made the wrong choice since even Google seems to be supporting other operating systems more than their own.

Do they have faith that it will survive? If they are backing other operating systems more than their own, then WHY am I backing their operating system?

Why are they so hush hush about what an update does on Android and there is no word of what is coming down the pipe for us, but there are massive annoucements about what the iphone is getting from google?

Why would anyone get an Android-based smart phone if Google is putting MORE resources behind the iphone than Android? How can the Android userbase increase if the iphone gets all the big google announcements?

As it stands there are a lot of areas that the iphone tops the G1. One of them should NOT be that it has the best versions of all the google services, and even has some that the Android platform doesn't.

I'll admit that this might be a bit premature. Maybe RC31 will actually add some new features that are direly needed and I'll be forced to eat crow, but the fact of the matter is that even from a pure PR perspective, it seems like all of the google announcements and excitement surround new software releases for the iphone and not their own platform.

I don't mind getting the apps later, but honestly, I don't have ANY idea WHAT I'm getting or WHEN I'm getting it. All I seem to know these days is what the iphone is getting or WILL be getting FROM the very company that made the OS running my phone.

And that makes me feel like a second class citizen and makes it doubly hard for me to recommend this phone to anyone if I feel like not even Google values their own platform as a serious contender.

[kommodore]

*golf clap*

Nicely put. You should teach the other kids how to complain diplomatically. I like you.

Plus I agree with you whole heartedly.

[snoslicer8]

I will answer from the programmatical standpoint.

There are certain things that have to be done for features to be added to a platform. In almost all cases, this includes a complete re-installation of the OS. The reasoning? The code is not there.

Android, simply put, probably doesn't have the APIs (code abilities) necessary to control some of the things we are asking for. This means that in order for these features to be added, they have to be written AND Android has to have the code necessary to control them added into it.

To top it all off, this new version of Android has to be pushed to all users.

Patches, as have been released already, are quite easy to write, and don't require a re-write of the OS to apply. This is why we've seen many of these, and not any new features added.

How long was it until the iPhone actually got new features after its release? I believe it was software version 1.1.3, which was almost 6 months after release.

Give it time, folks.

[kommodore]

snoslicer, I like you too.

Thanks for shedding some 'programmatical' light on it. I think to many of us forget that it's not as easy as we think it is.

[f4phantomii]

Google is split into basically three divisions....I know this cause I just talked to them yesterday.

1. Search
2. Apps
3. Geospatial

I'm guessing the recent maps/earth updates released for the iPhone came from the Geospatial division.

The voice recognition probably came from the Apps division, and on this point I'll agree that it might have better served Google's interest to have released this for the G1 first and drawn away a lot of customers from other carriers/phones.

I'm not discouraged yet. Still only been 3-4 weeks. I'm sure the Android team at Google is still trying to work bugs out from the rollout. Now if we get to the end of January and there aren't some snazzy things in the queue from Google for the G1, then I'm going to start to get discouraged.

In a world where phones get traded out anywhere from 6 months to a max of two years.....well.....6 months is pretty much the equivalent of middle age.

[Fare]

anyone that has written a little code knows that code from scratch takes time. going through existing code and making changes, while cumbersome and time consuming, is far less expensive (developer time and money) and is higher on the priority than new features.

as snoslicer8 said, "Give it time". This isn't the iPhone. This hasn't been out for 1+ years.

[churtnobain]

I don't mind getting the apps later, but honestly, I don't have ANY idea WHAT I'm getting or WHEN I'm getting it. All I seem to know these days is what the iphone is getting or WILL be getting FROM the very company that made the OS running my phone.

And that makes me feel like a second class citizen and makes it doubly hard for me to recommend this phone to anyone if I feel like not even Google values their own platform as a serious contender.[/quote]


perhaps is a broader marketing scheme the classic bait and switch.

Google could have been backing the iPhone all along...

maybe they are in kahoots...maybe google owns a huge portion of apple silently

They rush out a great new OS on the android platform and untested HTC dream, purposely

make it tastey enough for everyone to love, pavlos dog if you will...

then steadily make the G1 less appealing drawing a vast number of G1 users who are iphone affraid over to the iPhone, as it will clearly seem to be a much better and more established phone with better services/apps

thus iPhone gains a much broader customer base that they normally would not have gotten on their own????

or google just jumped the gun too soon on their own product, will take some time, get some traction and end up kicking the iphones ass...

just makes me wonder what googles angle is, if in fact they never excpected to sell the android OS specifically...

cause its always about the money when all the red tape is cut.

[dookieshoo]

maybe they are in kahoots...maybe google owns a huge portion of apple silently



Not sure if you know this, but Eric Schmidt has been on Apple's Board of Directors since August 29, 2006.

I believe there is some speculation as to whether or not he will remain, but as of now he is still a member.

[churtnobain]

Not sure if you know this, but Eric Schmidt has been on Apple's Board of Directors since August 29, 2006.

I believe there is some speculation as to whether or not he will remain, but as of now he is still a member.



there you go...

might just be some master plan from a mastermind

[churtnobain]

the future could be Android on the iphone?!?!

[Gigaflop]

I am no stranger to programming as my undergrad degree was in CompSci. I'm fully aware of the difficulties that surround such things.

But notice that I included a caveat, I can in fact be understanding that I will get the apps later.

However, I have no idea when I will get the apps later, if at all. The New York Times article was based on a visit to Google and note that from a PR perspective, there is NO indication that the app will be coming to the G1.

In fact, your own people seem to be content to be excited to release on the iphone and then in subtext mention that it will also be available to other mobile devices in the future. Not a single mention of Android.

It's not like Google PR is even concerned about their own platform. "Look! We're making these cool new things for the iphone!"

Where is the "We're making these cool new things for the iphone and they're coming SOON to Android as well!"

There was a lot of excitement about android prior to release, but it's as if the PR budget has been exhausted for Android and all money is being used to pimp the iphone.

We can't even figure out WHAT the patches that we get do AFTER the fact and we have people sitting there, menu by menu trying to ascertain exactly what a patch does, but we know WEEKS and MONTHS in advance what Google is going to do for the iphone.

Again, this just seems to indicate the kind of resources that google is putting behind the iphone as opposed to their own platform, and all indicators point to the fact that Android is intended more to be a subversive force in the marketplace, wrangling power away from the telco's and forcing the market to move in a direction that google can take advantage of, than it does appear to be an actual legitimate platform that google intends to support and put their full backing behind.

Again, if google is putting more time, money, resources, marketing, PR behind the iphone... then why did I jump on board with Andorid?

[sushi420]

i also don't understand why they decided to push the Voice Search thing on iPhone first and not on the G1...i can understand the iPhone userbase is much larger, but it could have done so much more to help sell the G1 and get it into more users hands...same thing w/ Google Earth goin to iPhone first....

just really hope as G1 users we will eventually get preferential treatment from google as far as google apps goes!!

[bizarro_stormy]

This is the most respectful and understanding complaint thread I have ever read. and I really wish more were stated and replied to this way.

[kommodore]

the future could be Android on the iphone?!?!

You kiss your mother with that mouth?!?!

This is the most respectful and understanding complaint thread I have ever read. and I really wish more were stated and replied to this way.

I know, right? Breath of fresh air.

[Tunster]

I think a lot of the early adopters (as much as myself but not including myself) are getting too ahead of themselves and demanding too much too early.

The way I see it myself, the RC updates are there to serve a purpose to tighten up the code ready for a fully stable version. As we've seen, Google want to tie up loose ends with bugs. The biggest problem is that with the OS being "open-source", they dont want any hell to break loose once they've stopped updating to correct "major" bugs.

For the whole, the OS for a RC beta is VERY impressive. The phone is superb, texting is slick, G-Mail IM works great and there's some trickles for good apps appearing on the market now. People don't understand that the "open-source" model for coding is completely different to "closed-source" (the iPhone, Nokia series etc). I guess Google wants us to trust the product fully before applying "new features". Everyone would be calling Google idiots for forgetting loopholes that would put customers at risk security wise.

All this iPhone development makes no difference. Google is being clever slipping into other products. Obviously the Google Maps etc gives them the tools to do this and remain popular.

I think people should stop worrying. This is a completely new market venture for Google (like Apple with their iPhone). The biggest problem for Apple... unless they open up their OS, there will only ever be 2/3 phones max they'll have on the go...

Google's Android... the possibilities are unless if they can get the building blocks of their new OS right and secure. I'd rather compare competition between Android and Nokia's Symbian than Android and iPhone. The iPhone is a very niche product and of course very limited.

If Google can convince Motorola (has made some VERY popular phones such as the V3) and others to join in, then I guess Android will be planted into the history books.

I'm not distressed at all. I can't why anyone else is. We all picked to change and back the Android; so let's all do that rather than be doom-mongerers all the blimin' time!

[Tunster]

i also don't understand why they decided to push the Voice Search thing on iPhone first and not on the G1...i can understand the iPhone userbase is much larger, but it could have done so much more to help sell the G1 and get it into more users hands...same thing w/ Google Earth goin to iPhone first....

just really hope as G1 users we will eventually get preferential treatment from google as far as google apps goes!!
The Voice Recognition wouldn't sell the G1 on its own. People forget a phone is primarily a communication tool of phone/texting. All these other features are just bolt-on's. I'd rather Google perfect the product on the iPhone and then give us a stable version later on :).

[DiscoDapper]

Android has always been posited by Google as a long-term project for them, and in that scheme we (along with the G1) are beta-testers. I have no doubt Android will gain traction over the next 1-3 years, but more than likely will never catch up with the iPhone. The more I think about it, the more it seems to be a replay of the whole iPod world domination thing. To further the analogy, Android is the "Zune". So while it has some fancy new features, the basic usage and sex appeal is all belong to the iPhone. Does this matter to me? Only in the sense that the iPhone will probably retain better developer support and therefore superior applications. I am still along for the G1 ride just to see it develop in interesting and surprising ways. Err... good surprises, hopefully.

With all this said, I am also befuddled as to why they don't hold back these goodies for the G1 for when it is capable of running them.

[churtnobain]

[ let's all do that rather than be doom-mongerers all the blimin' time![/quote]

I just think there might be things behind the scenes that we will never really know googles true intention, yet I must say...

Kudos mi amigo.

I have loved this phone since day one and even though I have had to send my first one back for a second due to hardware issues...I still love it.

whatever lies ahead of the android...Im glad to be along for the ride : )

I have been braggin about android for 2 years and how I was going to get the Android phone when it came out, and here we are...

one smalll step for man, one giant leap for Android

and yeah...I kiss my momma with this mouth : P

[JaceMan]

I'd rather Google perfect the product on the iPhone and then give us a stable version later on :).

Here, here!

It is always amusing to me how the "I want it, and I want it NOW!" complainer stereotype is modeled after the early adopter. In a perfect world, QA would spot and clean up everything, deadlines would never put pressure on developers, and no source code would ever be missing a semicolon. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world, and if you're first in line you should EXPECT to suffer through a few inconveniences and quirks for the sake of fulfilling that NOW need.

There's an old biblical parable, "Blessed are the last for they shall be the first." Granted, I'm as impatient (probably more so) as anyone else, but I try not to let myself be ticked off because I'm inconvenienced by an issue or two caused only by my inability to exercise a little waiting time.

[Tunster]

Android has always been posited by Google as a long-term project for them, and in that scheme we (along with the G1) are beta-testers. I have no doubt Android will gain traction over the next 1-3 years, but more than likely will never catch up with the iPhone.
Think back to the first gen iPhone, it was exactly the same. It had very little functionality in terms of the whole package. A lot of the early adopters became disappointed and obviously Apple gained a lot of experience/feedback to which direction the phone would go in. I'd say this is the same for the Android platform. Why does it have to play catch up when the phone is in a completely different league?

The more I think about it, the more it seems to be a replay of the whole iPod world domination thing. To further the analogy, Android is the "Zune". So while it has some fancy new features, the basic usage and sex appeal is all belong to the iPhone. Does this matter to me? Only in the sense that the iPhone will probably retain better developer support and therefore superior applications. I am still along for the G1 ride just to see it develop in interesting and surprising ways. Err... good surprises, hopefully.The iPhone in a sense has no domination. Considering it has a very little percentage of the market (1 - 3% - from the last figures), Nokia still have a huge grasp and Apple have no domination in that sense. I guess the development will come down to how many are willing to code for the Android and push it along. This is the key essentially as some have probably been left out or are too small to code for the iPhone.

With all this said, I am also befuddled as to why they don't hold back these goodies for the G1 for when it is capable of running them.The Android is still a baby compared with every other phone OS. However, the leaps its made are amazing and shows how capable the Android platform is if the right people get behind it. I guess there are very good reasons Google have decided to not rush out apps.

Again, everyone complains when an apps is rushed and is unusable, and same for if it's delayed a little and is a perfect product. Google can't make everyone happy, but I certainly am. I use most of the google products (Mail, Calendar, Maps etc) on a daily basis and this is a great solution to tie it together and being a modern phone too.

[GasBot]

This is the most respectful and understanding complaint thread I have ever read. and I really wish more were stated and replied to this way.
Yeah it's a very valid complaint and I was thinking the same thing when I saw the announcement of the voice search. Google really needs to stand behind this platform and do what they do best in developing top notch content for it.

[joshtheitguy]

I really see Android going much further then everyone thinks it is going to.

All the iPhone does for the smart-phone community in general i.e. is give Apple sheep another device to tote around with them and increase their inner feeling of self satisfaction then adding to their heightened sense of being better then everyone. Then it even acts as a gateway drug for idiots new to Apple who will buy the iPhone then start getting that same feeling of being better then everyone. Their new found love of Apple will then encourage them to buy more Apple products therefore increasing global smugging.

I'm sick and tired of all the b*tch*ng about the g1 and android in general, I have not had one problem with it. It makes calls, it gets my email, I have youtube access and plays music. FLAC support would and a 12 band equalizer would make me happy on the audio player but I wasn't expecting a first generation device and OS to do everything I could ever imagine. If you were expecting anything more then what you have now you need to realize that it is a first generation device and it will take time for things to perfect. If you can't grasp this extraordinarily easy concept this is not the phone for you.

It is not an iPhone, it will never be one and I am glad for I personally do not generate enough self satisfaction to own anything Apple Computer Corp. sh*ts out. I will be happy when Android does pick up because I will enjoy watching Apple have to step off their high horse. Apple still has extreme limitations on SDK, the network lock-in, a non replaceable battery, non expandable storage, plus that whole being hostage to iTunes which I feel and hope will bury it.

Maybe everyone who continually comes here or goes to XDA-Developers to constantly whine, moan and complain about the G1 should sell theirs to someone who will appreciate it and contribute to the greater good. Then you should go make a new anti-android community and spend all your time trolling the forum on your shiny new iPhone.

In short, shut the hell up.

[JaceMan]

In short, shut the hell up.

They don't have to.

I'm not an Android fanboy, Apple fanboy, Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft either. The myth of "tolerance" and "open-mindedness" is revealed daily on the internet. Everyone is all about fabled warm fuzzies like... co-existence, peace, and understanding. That is, UP UNTIL... someone decides that they have a less than positive opinion about something that we are passionate about or favorable of.

Yes, I agree that whining and complaining is a pretty big waste of time, but it is certainly no bigger a waste of time than whining and complaining about those who do it. Plus it's really hard to wag your finger in someone's face when you're doing the exact same thing.

In short, feel free to vent if you want.

[dkvitus]

Regardless of where Google's alliance is, my problem with Google is their unPROFESSIONAL behavior. (And if I may add, lack of PROACTIVEness... basic features on phone not included)

They gave us the G1 and told us what was in it, but they give us updates and dont tell us what is in it... I need to know what's in my sandwich incase I have an allergy (lol)

Is it too much to ask for a timeline and/or details?

Oh wait, you guys said we should wait till probably 2010 when Google will say:

"BTW 'early adopters', RC29 did this and RC30 did that, we will tell you what RC75 will do next year, it comes out ....soon"

[churtnobain]

well it WAS a respectful thread...

leave it to human nature to contradict itself

as for android...

it rules!!!

thank you google

hook em horns!!!

[joshtheitguy]

In short, feel free to vent if you want.

I think what I was trying to accomplish is the fact that I come to these communities to learn about Android from others and help if I can seeing I'm not a programmer. Though what I get when I come here and xda-developers is about 95% posts complaining about the device, day after day about the same things someone else has already complained about. It gets old.

Sorry if I have offended anyone but really sick of hearing the inane whining everyday when we should be positive about Android.

[Tunster]

Regardless of where Google's alliance is, my problem with Google is their unPROFESSIONAL behavior. (And if I may add, lack of PROACTIVEness... basic features on phone not included)

They gave us the G1 and told us what was in it, but they give us updates and dont tell us what is in it... I need to know what's in my sandwich incase I have an allergy (lol)

Is it too much to ask for a timeline and/or details?

Oh wait, you guys said we should wait till probably 2010 when Google will say:

"BTW 'early adopters', RC29 did this and RC30 did that, we will tell you what RC75 will do next year, it comes out ....soon"
Please calm down. I wish people would sit down for 2 minutes and understand that the RC updates are more than purely bug fix updates and sometime soon hopefully, the "RC" term is gone.

As much as this platform has the ability to take on new features directly from Google HQ, but isnt that the job of the Market? If Google has something to shout about, they'll let you know where and when to get it.

All the main features are there. If you want anymore, go and buy another phone that suits you. Simple :).

[dkvitus]

I think its about solving problems... We all come here to have our issues solved and/or help one another, so if someone is thinking aloud, it doesnt necessary mean they are complaining or venting (even though the majority or some do whine).

Bottom, line, I too love my device, and would buy another and buy again if I had to do it all over, but we are all trying to get the best/most out of it.

I dont know about u, I can wait, I have no problem with that, there's already too much for me out there (on G1) to swallow, but as users (early adopters or not), we need Google to act more responsibly (not necessary being as responsive as 911)

[JaceMan]

What is acting responsibly exactly? Where is the gross irresponsibility? I mean, if Google never did anything beyond open sourcing the platform, then I think they've basically done all that they NEED to do. If I don't like the direction it's heading, there's nothing keeping me from pitching in and contributing or trying to get enough excitement to branch off in another direction.

I demand accountability (so I hear you there) in those I do business with, my friends, my family, my church, and most importantly -- in myself. I just don't see where the "unPROFESSIONAL" and "irresponsible" pieces of flare are pinned to Google's vest, yet.

[Gigaflop]

Apologies to those who have maintained respect and shame on the flamers that are taking the thread down.

I can be very patient. I have absolutely no problem with waiting.

But it is you guys that tell me to wait. It is you guys that are telling me that great things will come of this OS. Google on the other hand is telling me what great things are coming out of the iphone. Google isn't saying anything about what they plan to do with this phone, and when they do make changes, they don't say a word about what they changed. For a company that is so clearly vocal about the things they are working on when it comes to the iphone platform, why are they suddenly silent when it comes to Android?

How can you guys have so much faith that Google will provide when all the evidence shown so far from them is that Android is some side pet project that isn't getting their full backing and support? I wouldn't mind waiting if they TOLD me that they were working on some awesome new things and if I read in NYT about some amazing feature that's coming to my phone, but instead I have to be told to wait by random fellow users of the phone in a forum.

And it's not like Google is silent when it comes to all things when they are clearly VERY vocal about what they're bringing to the iphone.

THAT is the source of my fear. I don't really care what they give the iphone if they also were openly letting us know that we're getting it. Instead, I get bombarded with news about what google is doing for the iphone, and then I have to scour the web to figure out what the heck the latest RC patch just did to my phone.

I can wait, and have no problem waiting, but I'd like to hear Google show some more support for their own platform rather than hear how much amazing support they're giving to other platforms and treat me like old news.

That is frankly very disconcerting.

[dkvitus]

What is acting responsibly exactly? Where is the gross irresponsibility? I mean, if Google never did anything beyond open sourcing the platform, then I think they've basically done all that they NEED to do. If I don't like the direction it's heading, there's nothing keeping me from pitching in and contributing or trying to get enough excitement to branch off in another direction.

I demand accountability (so I hear you there) in those I do business with, my friends, my family, my church, and most importantly -- in myself. I just don't see where the "unPROFESSIONAL" and "irresponsible" pieces of flare are pinned to Google's vest, yet.

Drop the gross for now if you may.
But for the record, please share with me any other companies that send out fixes, updates or whatever and do not notify thier users what risks they were exposed to and how this issues were resolved. Even apps on the market let you know what each version does. (I can already hear someone saying 'this is not a new version')

I have used open-source technology before, and I have nothing againts Goggle on that part. They did their job right, the rest is for the developers, but how is fixing problems and not pointing out what was done professional and responsible behavior?

You dont have to assume everyone knows what the fixes do, not everyone is tech-savvy (I'm not saying I'm not)

And I am very calm, dont let my words decieve you... I am also probably happier with my phone than you and most...

[kizer]

I play with my Xbox360 now and then and when I'm online and play a game and sometimes there is an update. I don't stare at it and say. "You know what I'm not going to install that because I don't know what it is." It would be silly because obvisouly its from a trusted source so it must be ok or Actually it "should" be OK. ;)

Sure it would be nice to have a list of fixes, but do they really have to tell us? Hell most might not even know what they are even talking about. I'd honestly like to see a bug fix list on the net, but maybe they are not releasing it for security reasons or they feel they just don't have to.

As for the Ipone thing. I wouldn't sweat it. The more users google has the more dependant others are on google. I don't have any numbers, but the iphone is a huge money maker for Apple currently. I saw some numbers on their market and I was blown away.

Whats going to kill development for the Andriod is if they don't have good paying apps it will not due well. What developer wants to port to Andriod if they can't make the same money they could make on the Iphone?

[kommodore]

Change logs are expected when updates are made.

But I see what you mean. Most people wouldn't know what most of the current fixes we are getting even are. I'm sure when they start adding features to the OS we will get changelogs in layman's terms.

[JaceMan]

Apologies to those who have maintained respect and shame on the flamers that are taking the thread down.

I can be very patient. I have absolutely no problem with waiting.

But it is you guys that tell me to wait. It is you guys that are telling me that great things will come of this OS. Google on the other hand is telling me what great things are coming out of the iphone. Google isn't saying anything about what they plan to do with this phone, and when they do make changes, they don't say a word about what they changed. For a company that is so clearly vocal about the things they are working on when it comes to the iphone platform, why are they suddenly silent when it comes to Android?

How can you guys have so much faith that Google will provide when all the evidence shown so far from them is that Android is some side pet project that isn't getting their full backing and support? I wouldn't mind waiting if they TOLD me that they were working on some awesome new things and if I read in NYT about some amazing feature that's coming to my phone, but instead I have to be told to wait by random fellow users of the phone in a forum.

And it's not like Google is silent when it comes to all things when they are clearly VERY vocal about what they're bringing to the iphone.

THAT is the source of my fear. I don't really care what they give the iphone if they also were openly letting us know that we're getting it. Instead, I get bombarded with news about what google is doing for the iphone, and then I have to scour the web to figure out what the heck the latest RC patch just did to my phone.

I'm not telling you to be patient because I have faith in Google supporting Android. I'm saying to be patient because I have enough common sense to believe that Google will support Google. In other words (as I was explaining in another thread), Google is in the business of making money. They are a publicly held company, and they are going to do what is best for their stockholders. If that means pushing applications to iPhone (who has a larger userbase, CURRENTLY -- and has existed for much longer) first, that's what they're going to do.

Google wants as many people using their products and services as humanly possible. They want you using their stuff on personal computers, macbooks, windows mobile, iPhones, androids, and mall kiosks. That's why I can sit and feel reasonably confident (that unless android phones simply don't sell) that we'll see plenty of Google "love." It's in their own best interest. See, the fact is Android OS isn't Google's "golden ticket" -- their apps and services are. Common sense dictates that if you follow the money, you'll understand where this is going.

You're right when you say that Google isn't transparent nor are they less than vocal. So lets not pretend that we don't hear what they're saying.

I can wait, and have no problem waiting, but I'd like to hear Google show some more support for their own platform rather than hear how much amazing support they're giving to other platforms and treat me like old news.

That is frankly very disconcerting.
I hear you, but the truth is that Android isn't "their" platform. It's OUR platform. We can talk about the SDK and the licensing and whether or not it's "truly" open or not, but Google doesn't own the OS. We have the OHA (Open Handset Alliance -- Google (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google), HTC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Tech_Computer_Corporation), Intel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel), Motorola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola), Qualcomm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualcomm), T-Mobile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile), Sprint Nextel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_Nextel) and NVIDIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVIDIA)) at the helm. This means there are a lot more people to kick in the tail than Google if you're displeased, and many of those that we'll be kicking are volunteers who are contributing for ZILCH!

[JaceMan]

But for the record, please share with me any other companies that send out fixes, updates or whatever and do not notify thier users what risks they were exposed to and how this issues were resolved. Even apps on the market let you know what each version does. (I can already hear someone saying 'this is not a new version')

Actually there are tons and many of those apps in the market that you spoke of do not provide change-logs (at least not in the market), but Google does publish what the patches are pushing. You may take issue with the fact that you don't like how they publish that information, your notification, or their process for rolling the updates out -- but it is untrue that they don't provide that information.

Change the argument to whose responsibility it is to notify you and in what method it must be done and I'll give you the nod. But protesting that they're not sharing or telling what is being changed simply isn't true.

[Gigaflop]

I play with my Xbox360 now and then and when I'm online and play a game and sometimes there is an update. I don't stare at it and say. "You know what I'm not going to install that because I don't know what it is." It would be silly because obvisouly its from a trusted source so it must be ok or Actually it "should" be OK. ;)

Sure it would be nice to have a list of fixes, but do they really have to tell us? Hell most might not even know what they are even talking about. I'd honestly like to see a bug fix list on the net, but maybe they are not releasing it for security reasons or they feel they just don't have to.



Actually, most changes for the X360 there IS a list of all fixes. Microsoft on their sites will list every change to the Xbox Dashboard. Bungie lists all bug fixes and changes on bungie.net to their Halo games. Epic releases all bug fix changes on their site to their games (Unreal, Gears of War).

Blizzard will list every detail, with every patch to any of their games. (Starcraft, Warcraft, Diable, WoW)

See a trend? Any company that cares about their customer DOES make these change-logs readily available. I'm not asking for it to pop up on my phone, but I do hope that users don't have to sit there are reverse engineer the experience to try to figure out what it did.

As for Google and iphone, I'm talking more about the message that google sends to us, their users. What they are basically saying is that they care more about supporting the iphone than they do android. Not because the apps are not available yet (that could just be a function of time and work) but because they don't even tell us if they will ever be available. Google wastes no time to announce every little detail of changes they are making to their iphone apps, which incidentally makes all the iphone versions better than the android counterparts, but simultaneously abandons us when it comes to communicating with their users.

A little side-long whisper "don't worry android peeps, we got your back, just wait till you see what we got planned for you." Would have me drooling and jumping off the walls.

Instead I feel abandoned... "We got the sale sucka, we don't need to support you any more, you're locked into using all of our services so we're done with you, right now, we want to court the guys over there, so cya."

[dkvitus]

I play with my Xbox360 now and then and when I'm online and play a game and sometimes there is an update. I don't stare at it and say. "You know what I'm not going to install that because I don't know what it is." It would be silly because obvisouly its from a trusted source so it must be ok or Actually it "should" be OK. ;)

Sure it would be nice to have a list of fixes, but do they really have to tell us? Hell most might not even know what they are even talking about. I'd honestly like to see a bug fix list on the net, but maybe they are not releasing it for security reasons or they feel they just don't have to.

As for the Ipone thing. I wouldn't sweat it. The more users google has the more dependant others are on google. I don't have any numbers, but the iphone is a huge money maker for Apple currently. I saw some numbers on their market and I was blown away.

Whats going to kill development for the Andriod is if they don't have good paying apps it will not due well. What developer wants to port to Andriod if they can't make the same money they could make on the Iphone?

Well said, I do get those updates on my PS3, and you know what, it messed up my unit once, so going forward, I log on to Sony's Official Playstation site to see what the updates to... The 2nd to the last update added a flash player to the browser, and guess what, we were all happy and could talk about it, instead of speculating and guessing what was included in it. Even the last minor update has details.

I guess the question I should ask is where to find the official Android BlogSpot, where they do their PR and users could find announcements.

Enough said, I'll direct my attention to something else.

[Gigaflop]

Actually there are tons and many of those apps in the market that you spoke of do not provide change-logs (at least not in the market), but Google does publish what the patches are pushing. You may take issue with the fact that you don't like how they publish that information, your notification, or their process for rolling the updates out -- but it is untrue that they don't provide that information.

Change the argument to whose responsibility it is to notify you and in what method it must be done and I'll give you the nod. But protesting that they're not sharing or telling what is being changed simply isn't true.

Woah, apologies if I didn't know, but can you point me in the direction to see the change-logs for RC 28, 29, and 30? Every time I did a search, I ended up at random sites where people self-compiled lists of things they *THINK* that the patch did.

There is a lot of recent "I think RC30 made my battery life longer" posts in this very forum. Is that even true? How is that possible? Then there are posts about calls hanging. I have noticed myself that it seems like my wifi seems to cut out more frequently... but then, I don't know what they did in the patch, so maybe my issues have nothing to do with the software and maybe the router is having issues. My understanding is RC30 was simply a vulnerability fix. Is that true? Did RC28 add the HTML viewer for .doc and .pdf?

I would love a link to where google publishes these changes.

[dkvitus]

Actually there are tons and many of those apps in the market that you spoke of do not provide change-logs (at least not in the market), but Google does publish what the patches are pushing. You may take issue with the fact that you don't like how they publish that information, your notification, or their process for rolling the updates out -- but it is untrue that they don't provide that information.

Change the argument to whose responsibility it is to notify you and in what method it must be done and I'll give you the nod. But protesting that they're not sharing or telling what is being changed simply isn't true.

I was going to quit this thread, but I should respond to u out of respect.
I like your previous arguement better than the one quoted above.

when I look at the back of my phone I see (with Google TM). The front says T-mobile, the side says htc... thats enough to tell me they are responsible, each of the players with their parts to play and responsibilities...

I even "google" for androids official site (android.com) but there is no news there... the last "In the news" item is "T-mobile G1 now available".

As for the update notifications, they failed in when, where, what, why, how and all the 'wh'-es... lol

thanks for your insight.

[Re@lly Dope!]

Totally agree with the original poster of this thread. Google is kind of being ridiculous, While android does show a lot of promise and this is just the beginning. I just suppose were all just ready for android to launch off and be the best mobile OS on the scene. There's just no patience when it comes down to the mobile market.

[classik88]

lol man theres not much i can say other than i love my android dont really like iphone no offense but its a "gay " phone in my opinion

[al74]

Guys. Would any of you imagine Apple coming up with iTunes for the G1 or Blackberry before it puts it on the iPhone? Any of you see Blackberry coming out with a BBConnect app that gives a better emailing experience on a third party hardware?

I am a user of an operating system created and supported by Google, T-mobile advertisements of the G1 claim "G1 with Google", well guess what, it's "iPhone with Google" as the Google experience on the iPhone looks more promising now that it is on the G1 (and I do love my G1).

The started development of Android several years ago and not yesterday. They managed to put StreetMaps on the G1 before it came to the iPhone, so they should have made sure to work on porting any mobile apps in development for the iPhone to the Android platform as, no matter what you say, it is a slap in the face to give users of your competitor a better application than what you provided to your operating system.

From marketing perspective, it's a disaster.

My friends with iPhone where pointing at my G1 this morning, and for a good reason.

[ickyfehmleh]

lol man theres not much i can say other than i love my android dont really like iphone no offense but its a "gay " phone in my opinion

First of all, attempting to use a term like "gay" as a derogatory remark only illustrates your utter lack of intelligence. If you have questions about whether or not anyone would be offended by such bigoted language, replace "gay" with "black", "Jewish", "Chinese", etc.

Google has several development departments, much like any large company. Google has its own iPhone development division, separate from the Android development division. The Google iPhone division has little (if anything) to do with Android -- for all intents and purposes they are two entirely separate companies. While it's true that both divisions interface with Maps and Earth, I'm pretty sure they're free to do whatever they want. Remember, it's ultimately still Google they're working for, and if Google makes more money, they all make more money.

[pathogen]

iphone's os has had alot more polish time.

[All~G1]

Applause to the OP! I think this is a mature and perfect example (except for the the few post) of what a POSITIVE & CONSTRUCTIVE complaint thread looks like.

I think this thread should be stickied... Just my opinion.

[ei8htohms]

This has been a great discussion all things considered and I applaud the restraint exhibited thus far. So much so that it inspired me to register and participate (rather than just reading all of y'all).

I think the criticism is fair in so far as Google's possibly not done as much as they could have to make us all feel warm and fuzzy about supporting their new platform. There may be perfectly good reasons for it, but that doesn't mean they've handled it optimally either.

I think the scope of what they're attempting to do with this operating system is difficult to properly contextualize and if they've run into some stumbling blocks along the way then we have to cut them some slack. Google is trying to realize the next logical step in their "cloud" computing vision of the future and frankly, this is important stuff. They're history to date tells me that they can deliver in great style and I don't think they can afford for Android to suck, so I remain imminently hopeful.

One possible reason for not putting out details about what the updates do is because they are delivered over time and the updates are probably dealing with pretty sensitive stuff in some aspects. If there's a major security problem (or even a serious minor one), they don't want to publicize it for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that they don't want malicious hackers to be able to capitalize on all the phones out there that haven't been updated yet. That would be bad.

I'm assuming that the major portion of the "quiet" support of the platform thus far has to do with it being new and brave and difficult and all that (see above), but it's possible there's some good old fashion bet-hedging at play as well. T-Mo is in a primo spot with this phone, but how much is it to the advantage of Google to really play it up while it is T-Mo exclusive? Is it perhaps smarter to play it safe and gradual and make things bulletproof while holding hands with this relatively smaller service provider so that once they start playing with the big boys (well, Verizon I guess) they won't have pegged themselves as T-Mo's operating system and can continue their quest for world domination with less "playing sides" troubles?

I don't think the phone is perfect. Not by a longshot in fact. I think it will get better, probably a lot better in fact. I also see its quirky design and the likely limitations of the hardware going forward as indicators of its potential to become a cult item of sorts (especially if Android takes off as i think it probably will) and that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about it even when the battery is near dead at 3 pm on a workday. :)

Anyway, that's my perspective and it's worth just about as much as you paid for it.

_john

[m4nic3]

This has been a great discussion all things considered and I applaud the restraint exhibited thus far. So much so that it inspired me to register and participate (rather than just reading all of y'all).

I think the criticism is fair in so far as Google's possibly not done as much as they could have to make us all feel warm and fuzzy about supporting their new platform. There may be perfectly good reasons for it, but that doesn't mean they've handled it optimally either.

I think the scope of what they're attempting to do with this operating system is difficult to properly contextualize and if they've run into some stumbling blocks along the way then we have to cut them some slack. Google is trying to realize the next logical step in their "cloud" computing vision of the future and frankly, this is important stuff. They're history to date tells me that they can deliver in great style and I don't think they can afford for Android to suck, so I remain imminently hopeful.

One possible reason for not putting out details about what the updates do is because they are delivered over time and the updates are probably dealing with pretty sensitive stuff in some aspects. If there's a major security problem (or even a serious minor one), they don't want to publicize it for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that they don't want malicious hackers to be able to capitalize on all the phones out there that haven't been updated yet. That would be bad.

I'm assuming that the major portion of the "quiet" support of the platform thus far has to do with it being new and brave and difficult and all that (see above), but it's possible there's some good old fashion bet-hedging at play as well. T-Mo is in a primo spot with this phone, but how much is it to the advantage of Google to really play it up while it is T-Mo exclusive? Is it perhaps smarter to play it safe and gradual and make things bulletproof while holding hands with this relatively smaller service provider so that once they start playing with the big boys (well, Verizon I guess) they won't have pegged themselves as T-Mo's operating system and can continue their quest for world domination with less "playing sides" troubles?

I don't think the phone is perfect. Not by a longshot in fact. I think it will get better, probably a lot better in fact. I also see its quirky design and the likely limitations of the hardware going forward as indicators of its potential to become a cult item of sorts (especially if Android takes off as i think it probably will) and that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about it even when the battery is near dead at 3 pm on a workday. :)

Anyway, that's my perspective and it's worth just about as much as you paid for it.

_john

Ummmm yeah wut he said

[Oblique63]

First of all, I would like to acknowledge that yes, a lot of whining goes on about android related things (namely in the Market comments), and that it's not of very much help to developers (I myself am a programmer, so I could understand how annoying it is for people to bug you for 'features', etc), BUT I do totally feel that the original poster has a legitimate concern about the platform and that he presented his argument in a respectable justified manner, which I happen to agree with. Because to allude to an earlier post, I really could not see Blackberry/RIM releasing an app for the iphone or WinMo devices before their own... then again, neither Apple nor RIM are exclusively software companies like Google is, so that should probably be taken into consideration as well...

that being said, I believe this is relevant to the discussion:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/11/google-iphone-a.html

[Tunster]

Come on guys... let's get realistic here. Is this voice app groundbreaking? NO! Would it sell extra G1s? NO! Does it worry me personally? NO!

Why do we need a voice search on the G1 when we've got a more than capable keyboard that is much more advantageous than the iPhone which is without one and relies on a tiny virtual keyboard.

The biggest problem is, you've got to look at the other side as well. Would it be stupid to abandon development on it's "software" projects on the iPhone just because they've released an "open-source" OS? Yes it would! Why should it be up to google to implement everything they have on the Android? The whole bloody point of the Android platform is a new way of development and thinking structure, rather than the closed-source systems we see only big companies get the cheese at developing on.

I think sooo many here do not understand the Android concept still (and also Google's way of thinking!). Google can only gain valuble experience by continuing to develop on the iPhone. It's got a good customer base who can say yes/no to products. What if this voice product is crap? What a waste of time it would been porting it over to the Android and we would of all said what a crap Google product.

I can understand people's concerns, but Google has got to keep a tight balance on all it's projects. We're only several weeks into the initial G1 launch everyone is demanding everything which is sad. Good things come to those who wait.

[paranoidandroid]

This is the video for that google voice app coming to the iPhone.
This does look kinda cool:
YouTube - Google Mobile App for iPhone, now with Voice Search

[Tunster]

This is the video for that google voice app coming to the iPhone.
This does look kinda cool:
YouTube - Google Mobile App for iPhone, now with Voice Search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYLTiecN-EE)
But why would this app be any good for G1 users? We've got the advantage of a full keyboard and using the google search widget takes two seconds to use. :rolleyes:

[paranoidandroid]

No offense to the G1, I love it, but I have also got an iPod Touch and i can say i can type faster on that then i can type on any keyboard, including my computer keyboard.

You don't need to depress buttons, you just have to tap. You don't need little fingers either, I use my thumbs even when the iPhone is vertical and i can type just as fast. And the auto-correction is spot on. Seriously, if you use the iPhone or iTouch for over a week you will see that there is nothing to complain about with the virtual keyboard.

I know this post sounds pro-iPhone but Im just stating facts :)

[f4phantomii]

I can tell you with absolute certainty that for every person screaming for a virtual keyboard app for the G1, there are three iPhone owners screaming equally loudly for a physical keyboard.

[CJ Chitwood]

I just want to say (in case I don't get a chance to finish this thread) that I'm only up to post 15 and I have to agree with Kommodore and the guy with the cartoon silverhair for an avatar: This is definitely the BEST FORM of a complaint thread I've ever seen (at least, up to post 15). Complaint was very well worded, was not in the form of a whiner's march, and the responses are all well though-out and in fact this thread has even made me realize a few things I hadn't considered up until now... and the embarrassing thing is that it's stuff I already know from my own CompSci and OSS background...


Will look for a way to rate the thread.... this is excellent.... props to you all!

----------------------------------Edit-----------------------------------------
Okay, so I've read the whole thread and here's my view... First off, I stand by my original props: Excellent use of the brains, people, even with the less than productive posts (I was a little worried) the thread is overall still a fine example of people using their heads.

I'm incredibly disappointed that the iPhone is getting these apps and I do agree that Google could at least say, "Oh, well, we'll be developing it for the Android platform, too" but I have to admit there are some good points here about Google using iPhone as something of a testbed. The shame is that the OSes are different. Or are they? Assuming they are completely different, it may be quite difficult to develop on one platform as a testbed then port it to the other, so I can clearly see why they'd port to the Apple one first: more users.

I am disappointed, but I'm not worried yet. I'll wait until... maybe March. If I don't see anything like voice search (see my point [1] below) and Google Earth for the phone by then, then I'll be a little worried. What I REALLY want to see before ANYTHING ELSE, however, is an opportunity to put apps on SD instead of the meager 71 MB or so we have available to us from the beginning (and you people want Google Earth on that meager space? You've GOT to be kidding!). Also, I don't use IM or MyFaves... I would love to remove them from my phone. Regardless, without the ability to put apps on the SD, my use of this phone in the future will be quite limited. Yes, I get use out of it now, but I want the phone to continue to become more useful to me rather than becoming more stagnant. Look at gaming systems. Stagnant technologies get replaced. Savvy?


[1] Voice search, but more importantly, other voice commands, like "route present location to four-zero-one-nine andrew-jackson-drive" which would make the phone so much more functional while driving. I was trying to find the fastest route between two points while driving, and really didn't want to take my hands off the wheel. I couldn't do it safely, so I gave up (the point being, do it without pulling over to stop). I was giving a very precise address in each field (entered at a stop light and on a long straight onramp so minimal knee use was required -- something I'm not comfortable doing), and Google Maps kept saying "Could not find route" or some such... I think it would be great to be able to tap my phone, unlock it by voice (not gonna happen), say "open search" and then say "map Longhorn Steaks" when I'm somewhere I've never been, driving, and need to get to something I want.

But now I've digressed off the original topic. Yes, I realize that Google has its hands full with other projects, but we need -- we deserve -- something along the lines of telling us something's coming. Even "just wait 'til you see what's in store" would suffice for me.

I'm disappointed, but I'm excited. If they're doing this for iPhone, surely it will eventually come to us.

But be careful with "we deserve". We're early adopters, beta testers, yes. BUT, we get many of our early apps for free. I'm not complainin'.

Cheers!

[CJ Chitwood]

I can tell you with absolute certainty that for every person screaming for a virtual keyboard app for the G1, there are three iPhone owners screaming equally loudly for a physical keyboard.

You sure? It's easier to add software than hardware. I think instead of screaming loudly for a keyboard, they'd be screaming loudly for someone to buy their iPhone so they could go get a G1 :big evil mischievous grin:



Well, maybe not :shrugs:

[jmejiaa]

It would be cool for searching while driving.

I hate the keyboard because sometimes I don't have 2 hands to type, and not only when driving.

[CJ Chitwood]

and not only when driving

o_O Not sure I want to know what you're referring to here....

[Crashdamage]

Tunster said:
....Is this voice app groundbreaking?...do we need a voice search on the G1...I couldn't care less about it, I never even use voice dialing. And it's needed more on the iPhone because of a lack of a keyboard.

f4phantomii said:
...for every person screaming for a virtual keyboard app for the G1, there are three iPhone owners screaming equally loudly for a physical keyboard.Absolutely. And they're screaming for lotsa other stuff too, like copy-paste, Flash, removable batteries and storage, etc, etc. There still a lotta ticked-off iPhone users, even after nearly 2 years, several updates and thousands of apps offered for it.
I could never go for an iPhone or look-alike clone because of having no real keyboard. Touch keyboards are too slow and clumsy and eat valuable screen space. The G1's combination of touch-screen and keyboard is just right.

I have no doubts about Google's commitment to Android. I'm really surprised that Google offering a marginally-useful little feature for another OS could be enough set off doubts. And as has been said, it would be plain stupid for them to ignore other very popular platforms. Did anyone else notice that the iPhone is now the #1 selling phone in the world, passing the Moto Razr V3 (which had an amazing run at the top)? Well, Google didn't miss it. As more manufacturers offer Android phones and sheer user numbers increase, and when the Market offers apps-for-sale, Google and everyone else will give Android more and more attention. Just as has happened with the iPhone. Android just needs time to build userbase and momentum.

Look at it this way: Apple just got there 1st with the iPhone and right now they're ridin' high. They got there 1st with the PC too, and for a while were ridin' high. But eventually PC hardware became "open" (too bad not the OS). Most users found they liked having a wide choice of hardware and not being tied to one company. Apple's closed, restrictive ways cost 'em. They fell hard and would've been history long ago without $150 million from Bill Gates, of all people.

We have a kinda similar situation with phones now to PC's years ago - Apple's ridin' high, other platform's are trying to keep pace. But with the Open Handset Alliance and Android now we have both open hardware AND software. In a couple of years or so we may well look back at this time and see this is where it all started to change for Apple in the smartphone biz.

[XerxesQados]

This point has been brought up earlier in the thread, but perhaps it will hit home more when I mention that RC29 to RC30 makes it so your phone doesn't reboot anymore when you type "reboot" into a text message.

The Android team probably has a very complex set of priorities.

[N3TWORK BURN3R]

You guys are aware that the head of Google sits on the board of directors for apple....right?

[Crashdamage]

N3TWORK BURN3R said:
You guys are aware that the head of Google sits on the board of directors for apple....right?Yeah, though he may not be there too much longer - we'll see what happens there.

Clearly Google wants not just T-Mobile to succeed, but everyone - which is why they created Android as OSS, so everyone could have a piece of the pie - as long as Google figures into the picture somehow. IOW, I doubt Google much cares if T-Mobile or Apple, or Verizon or whoever 'wins' in the end, they just wanna be still standing tall when the dust settles. They're fine with Apple and AT&T, but as the iPhone is a closed system and will never be the only phone in the world, they wanted a flexible, customizable way in on other manufacturers' and providers hardware and systems. So - we get Android.

Say what you want about Google, they're not perfect and have and will make mistakes. But don't call 'em stupid.

[Crashdamage]

Seems things have changed a little...
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/15/more-apple-iphone-search-weirdness-and-embarrassment-for-google/

[Gigaflop]

Seems things have changed a little...
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/15/more-apple-iphone-search-weirdness-and-embarrassment-for-google/

I think I would die laughing if this was an attempt to undermine Apple by demonstrating how draconian their policies are.

All google needs to do now is release it on Android and say "see, so much easier on Android. Make your apps there and don't worry about the big bad Apple Bully!"