T-mobile and GTalk messages

[Dimath]

Is T-Mobile going to charge for a gtalk message as a message, not as a data used? (Like it does for AOL short messages sending by internal messenger in some phones). If so - that's really sucks. One should charge for traffic used (unless it's unlimited), not for a services as message/e-mail/etc...

[Dimath]

I just realized that they DO charge for the message as an a message. Could somebody explain to my, WHY do they charge different for the different data transmitting services? Is there any other restrictions (and this is definitely a restriction) on the internet access? Can I use some kind of application which would connect to the gtalk jabber server directly through tcp/ip and be an "using internet application", not a messaging application? The same question about e-mails, btw. That's #$%@&# ridiculous.

[Dimath]

Why don't they charge for any visited web-page separately, uh? Where is the difference, in both cases it's just send and received bytes. In case of the web page it is much more bytes, btw, so, I don't understand.

[divestoclimb]

I'm pretty sure they don't do this with any of their BlackBerry smartphones (how could they? GTalk is a 3rd party product on that platform) so I think they'd have an all-out customer riot (if not class-action lawsuit) if they tried to pull something like that here.

[rizzay]

a little off topic but will the aim client be text based or program based(sidekick), if its text based every IM is going to count as a text. i would have to change my service to unlimited text instead of 400.

[prettyboy85712]

I spoke with CS this morning regarding this very subject. Any type of messaging whether it be GTalk, IM or SMS counts as a text message.

[Driguez]

I spoke with CS this morning regarding this very subject. Any type of messaging whether it be GTalk, IM or SMS counts as a text message.

Wow, seems sneaky to me. So most people will have to be on the $35 plan, time for me to switch. :mad:

[rizzay]

I spoke with CS this morning regarding this very subject. Any type of messaging whether it be GTalk, IM or SMS counts as a text message.


wow thanks for this a lot of people are going to be surprised by their 1st phone bill when their text messages are over 1000

[DesignDawg]

Hmmm. I'd really like to see an official confirmation of this. Anyway, couldn't someone just write an app that is separate and there'd be no way for them to charge them as texts?

[New World]

wow thanks for this a lot of people are going to be surprised by their 1st phone bill when their text messages are over 1000

I'd take what ANY CSR says right now with a grain of salt http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r82/SanDiegoDrive/Smileys/sure.gif

[benh57]

Hmmm. I'd really like to see an official confirmation of this. Anyway, couldn't someone just write an app that is separate and there'd be no way for them to charge them as texts?

The confirmation is right on the 'select data plan' page. You can only see it in the middle of signup and i have no way to view it now. But it clearly says IMs are counted as part of your 400 - texts SMS are listed out separately.

Hence my post from the other day -- what's to stop someone from porting Trillian to android and using google talk through that? Should work fine and not count against messages. It will use data of course.

[NetCom]

I agree - I do not think they will be able to monitor Instant messaging as it is part of the DATA not GSM traffic. At the same note, if they can - who is to say that Trillian will not be a teriffic alternative to avoid IM msgs counted toward 400 for $25 data plan ...

Don't you love this Android OS already and its openness :D

[benh57]

Of course, they could do some 'deep packet inspection' techniques to monitor data traffic and try to charge you if a packet looks like an instant message. But that could be worked around using SSL and a proxy server.

[New World]

I agree - I do not think they will be able to monitor Instant messaging as it is part of the DATA not GSM traffic. At the same note, if they can - who is to say that Trillian will not be a teriffic alternative to avoid IM msgs counted toward 400 for $25 data plan ...

Don't you love this Android OS already and its openness :D

Yes, yes I do. That's something we all love. Limitless possibilitieshttp://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r82/SanDiegoDrive/Smileys/ohmy.gif


Of course, they could do some 'deep packet inspection' techniques to monitor data traffic and try to charge you if a packet looks like an instant message. But that could be worked around using SSL and a proxy server.

I don't think they'd go that far, I don't even know if that legal?

[tjferris]

can anyone confirm this or not?? I didn't think im's would count as sms so i got the 400 txt data plan if thats the case i better get the unlimited.............i can't see how they can track that.....i mean if you have an internet only plan do they charge you to instant message off your laptop???
give me a break Tmobile...............

[DesignDawg]

can anyone confirm this or not?? I didn't think im's would count as sms so i got the 400 txt data plan if thats the case i better get the unlimited.............i can't see how they can track that.....i mean if you have an internet only plan do they charge you to instant message off your laptop???
give me a break Tmobile...............

Unfortunately, I think I can confirm it...
From the manual that came out today, on the page about IMs:

Separate charges may apply to
send/receive domestic/international
instant messages.

Scary thing is, it also says this about EMAILS! It says it about SMS and MMS too, of course. But then at the end of the section, it gives a nice clean catch-all:

Separate charges may apply to send/
receive domestic/international e-mail,
text, and instant messages.

EMAIL? I think that's kinda crappy and shady. Anyone else? I love TMobile and all, but I think they should call the data plans unlimited with 400 text/email/IMs or unlimited with unlimited text/email/IMs if they are going to do this. If they are charging emails as texts, it feels a little like they are just trying to surprise us and snatch a few extra bucks out of our pockets on our first bill. You call up complaining, and then they tell you this little bit of news, so you upgrade. :(

[New World]

Hmmm...that was a little misleading.

Very unlike T-Mobile, or there lack to clarify better.

[divestoclimb]

If my first bill is charging me for IMs and emails as "messages" and not "data" I'm filing a complaint with the very pro-net-neutrality FCC. I don't think T-Mobile wants to face the embarrassment of being the next Comcast, and they can't make the excuse that the FCC can't regulate them.

If, on the other hand, they've set up some crazy, hacked delivery system for emails and IM's that uses the cell network and not a data connection (which would explain how they got GMail to "push") then there's not much we can do except replace the builtin apps with ones that connect via the data network.

[PinotMobile]

can anyone confirm this or not?? I didn't think im's would count as sms so i got the 400 txt data plan if thats the case i better get the unlimited.............i can't see how they can track that.....i mean if you have an internet only plan do they charge you to instant message off your laptop???
give me a break Tmobile...............


Yes IMs will count toward a text bucket, just like it always has with every phone on every company. I think it has to do with the Short Codes of each IM client and possibly the wireless providers having to pay them for use as well - not sure there.

Email though? I doubt it. I'll check on that one for you. It may come down to a difference of the type. Off the top of my head, if you send an email to or from your given " xxx-xxx-xxxx@tmomail.net address which comes with every phone number it is billed as text, but if it's between non-T-Mobile addresses it would bill as data like Blackberry or Total Internet plans do.

[DesignDawg]

Yes IMs will count toward a text bucket, just like it always has with every phone on every company. I think it has to do with the Short Codes of each IM client and possibly the wireless providers having to pay them for use as well - not sure there.

Email though? I doubt it. I'll check on that one for you. It may come down to a difference of the type. Off the top of my head, if you send an email to or from your given " xxx-xxx-xxxx@tmomail.net address which comes with every phone number it is billed as text, but if it's between non-T-Mobile addresses it would bill as data like Blackberry or Total Internet plans do.

Thankfully, this is incorrect. I don't know how long it's been up, but on the G1 FAQ on my.tmobile.com, it says this:


How much is the G1 data service? What is included?

T-Mobile offers two T-Mobile G1-specific data plans.

The first is an unlimited Web/data and unlimited messages plan for $35. This plan includes:

* Unlimited Internet access
* Unlimited e-mail
* Unlimited messaging (text, picture, and IM)
* T-Mobile HotSpot data access

The second option is an unlimited Web/data plan that comes with 400 messages for $25. This plan includes:

* Unlimited Internet access
* Unlimited e-mail (unlimited, part of Web/data)
* Unlimited IM on Google Talk
* 400 total messages (text messages, picture messages, non-Google Talk IM)
* T-Mobile HotSpot data access

TOP

With the $25 data plan, why don’t the Google Talk IMs count toward the included messages?

AIM® and Yahoo! Messenger use a text messaging protocol to send messages. Google Talk actually uses an XMPP protocol, which is billed as Internet access.

PHEW! That takes a load off my mind! Gonna start a new thread about it.

[bizarro_stormy]

nice. even though i got the $35 plan, its nice to know exactly whats up

[JAWheat411]

Design Dawg just posted some info on this.
http://androidcommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=953

[tread]

so i'll break it down for you folks...

its software based... programs like the OZ communicator that you'll find on a lot of handsets actually directs your text message traffic to the company's text messaging databases, servers, whatever you want to call them... so if you actually downloaded a different program like the old AIM that used to work off your internet connection, then those SMS are not monitored by the company and thus are not counted as text messages...

take for example a free program called octrotalk that works on windows mobile that is an advanced gchat program... it goes through the internet, updates all the information through the internet and not through the text message database, thus not counting against your message bucket...

so it depends on how the software was made by gchat... in order to be more energy efficient, programs were made to connect to the text message database so it doesn't continually have a connection with the IM database draining your battery just like wifi or bluetooth can... so no matter what, a program will be developed to contact directly with the IM server thus rendering your text message bucket unharmed...

another example would be AOL instant messanger... on your computer you can have your IM's directed to your handset via your phone number... this feature uses the exact same system causing you to lose text messages if you have a limited bucket...

hope this clarifies the confusion... my guess would be that the gchat client WILL go through SMS server, reducing your text message bucket for maximum efficiency... but i believe programs are already available that will go directly to the IM client instead

[DesignDawg]

my guess would be that the gchat client WILL go through SMS server, reducing your text message bucket for maximum efficiency... but i believe programs are already available that will go directly to the IM client instead

Nope! :) Read my previous post or the thread I started on the subject. AIM, Yahoo! and other will, but googletalk will not. Nor emails.

[tread]

well then don't be surprised if you get a substantially low battery time out of your phone... granted i'm sure google has written their OS for maximum battery efficiency, as well as the brand new qualcomm chipset, but you can't prevent a battery being drained by constant 3G access, playing videos, music etc... its not google's fault, its our current technical capabilities in the battery industry...

[snoslicer8]

I have a feeling that gtalk is included because it runs off of the same "backend" service that the sync between Gmail, Calendar, Contacts, etc. are based off of. Perhaps a sidekick-esque constant trickle of data to allow push is also allowing Gtalk messages, Calendar Events, and Contact sync.

[PinotMobile]

Hmm,


The first is an unlimited Web/data and unlimited messages plan for $35. This plan includes:

* Unlimited Internet access
* Unlimited e-mail
* Unlimited messaging (text, picture, and IM)
* T-Mobile HotSpot data access

vs.


The second option is an unlimited Web/data plan that comes with 400 messages for $25. This plan includes:

* Unlimited Internet access
* Unlimited e-mail (unlimited, part of Web/data)
* Unlimited IM on Google Talk
* 400 total messages (text messages, picture messages, non-Google Talk IM)
* T-Mobile HotSpot data access

I'd want clarity on the end result meaning of "IM" versus "non-google talk IM"

[DesignDawg]

Hmm,


vs.


I'd want clarity on the end result meaning of "IM" versus "non-google talk IM"

The phone has built-in support of AIM, Yahoo! and (I forget...ICQ?) These are counted as texts. it says that at the bottom of the quoted text.

[tread]

Hmm,


vs.


I'd want clarity on the end result meaning of "IM" versus "non-google talk IM"

pinotmobile, read my post above a few... basically the included messenger which is probably OZ communicator goes through t-mobiles text messaging servers (AIM, yahoo, msn, icq) where as the gtalk client will probably run directly to googles IM servers...

aim yahoo msn and icq can be had without the OZ type communication software, it would just be an entirely different program and can be made to not count against your messages

[PinotMobile]

pinotmobile, read my post above a few... basically the included messenger which is probably OZ communicator goes through t-mobiles text messaging servers (AIM, yahoo, msn, icq) where as the gtalk client will probably run directly to googles IM servers...

aim yahoo msn and icq can be had without the OZ type communication software, it would just be an entirely different program and can be made to not count against your messages


Point being I don't see where anyone has said anything incorrect here. IMs via AIM etc, excluding google talk IM, will withdraw from your text package bucket unless you perform a post market modification. If an email in sent to/from your x@tmomail.net address it will also deduct from your text bucket.

[tread]

well the major instant messaging clients that are included with OZ communicator typically are AIM, MSN, ICQ, and YAHOO... so by saying non google talk, it mentions any of these... now being a corporation, their suggestion of instant messaging only includes the messaging with the clients that they provide on the phone itself, which once again is more than likely OZ communicator, not anything that you add third party wise on there... so nobody has said anything wrong, but the people writing these web pages aren't always in the know for everything, just like how manuals for cell phones are sometimes completely wrong because of revisions etc, but its more cost effective to send out the old manual and have the customer check the online manual instead

[VGPOP]

Well, I have been texting my sister in-law back and forth today, and I will personally keep 400 text message as my plan, unless I see myself texting for everything.

400 is a lot of text for me. Even going back and forth.

[tread]

Well, I have been texting my sister in-law back and forth today, and I will personally keep 400 text message as my plan, unless I see myself texting for everything.

400 is a lot of text for me. Even going back and forth.

i'm sure you know already, but outgoing and incoming count against the 400... don't want you to get any overage...

[alfmetal]

i just got my t-mobile bill, and they are charging me 20 cents for every sent or received message.
i wish there is something we can do to stop t-mobile for doing this
thanks