Everyone’s looking forward to Cupcake, right? Not so fast, says Big in Japan – the team behind the popular ShopSavvy application – Android 1.5 presents more than a few problems for developers. According to Alexander Muse, applications currently running on Android won’t necessarily be compatible with Cupcake 1.5; that means a mad rush to download the new firmware and rebuild their software.
Compounding the problem is the fact that the Android Market won’t allow more than one version of an app, which means developers aren’t able to simply create a new, 1.5-friendly update and leave the existing version in place for those without Cupcake. Instead, Big in Japan face creating a new build that’s also backward compatible with earlier versions of Android, something they conservatively estimate should normally take around two to three weeks of development.
However according to some reports, Cupcake will be pushed as an over-the-air to Android device owners in just two days, and it’s already live in Spain. That means three weeks of development needs to be squashed into two days, never-mind any time for testing:
“The good news is that we will release our new version whenever Cupcake is pushed OTA to users. The bad news it will be untested. It will have bugs, bugs that we will fix. Please bear with us and realize that we don’t have much choice in the matter” Alexander Muse, Big in Japan
As Alexander notes, the Big in Japan team are likely more prepared for the coding challenge ahead than many others, particularly those part-time developers who have been cooking up Android apps in their spare time. The public perception of Android as a platform depends in no small part on the success and stability of its third-party software; have Google shot themselves in the foot by allowing carriers to rush out Cupcake 1.5?
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but i kinda saw this coming... when alot of my apps werent compatible with cupcake i knew that all of them would be updated... but what about the ones that were pulled from the market or were discontinued, that im still using?(im still using the original "force ring" from back in the day)
curious to see how this turns out...
anywho, not really surprised...anytime something new comes out, there's going to be compatibility issues.
they are saying b/c they're mad that their flashlite apps aren't working now
Specifically the apps that access system controls like wifi, have heavy UI elements, etc. (a lot of what ShopSavvy does)
Also dev's that update their apps for 1.5 right now that make use of the new uri's and similar, will crash out for the rc33 users. This should work like a regular software repository, where dependencies are listed in the package to avoid this issue.
Out of all the roll outs I've been in, this is the worst thus far.
they are saying b/c they're mad that their flashlite apps aren't working now
The must list includes:
Data transfer by Bluetooth; (needed it this weekend)
Functioning wifi; (need it 90% of the time)
Email that works for IMAP and POP3; (need all the time)
Ability to receive and download ALL attachments on the phone (email). (Need often)
Ability to stop ALL data roaming and keep apps from over riding. (When traveling, need all the time).
I have been told by several developers that Android/Google are well aware of these issues, so, that excuse is BS. These are abilities everyone has come to expect on any decent smartphone. I love the physical form of this phone, but ya know... this is 2009. When I was talking with a TMO tech she got into this real kinda cooing voice and said to think of the Android systems as a new born baby that needed lots of love and understanding. (Seriously!). All I could think of was that plastic baby from Blade Trinity with "**** You" written on its stomach, that spit raw garlic into your eyes.
Specifically the apps that access system controls like wifi, have heavy UI elements, etc. (a lot of what ShopSavvy does)
Also dev's that update their apps for 1.5 right now that make use of the new uri's and similar, will crash out for the rc33 users. This should work like a regular software repository, where dependencies are listed in the package to avoid this issue.
Out of all the roll outs I've been in, this is the worst thus far.
Anyways - I hope they have some plans for that because... well that is just going to screw a lot of devs and put a really NEGATIVE opinion/feeling on the overall usability of the market..
Anyways - I hope they have some plans for that because... well that is just going to screw a lot of devs and put a really NEGATIVE opinion/feeling on the overall usability of the market..
By not allowing developers adequate time between an SDK release and a user release, Google is all but guaranteeing applications will not function properly on 1.5. There are already questions about WebViews bringing up the page in a browser instead of the application window, applications breaking when referencing other projects, button sizes being different across releases, etc.
Every other software company in existence releases OS/API upgrades to developers and allows them time to update their applications. Two-three weeks is hardly adequate time, and the SDK has only been finalized for, what, a day? Another company, perhaps you're familiar with them, has given developers at least three months to get ready for a v3.0 OS release.
I can see it now....RIOTS IN THE STREETS!
like the 1,000 themes on there?
I've never had problems running shopsavvy on the cupcake builds ive tried, the only one that doesnt work is PowerManager
The must list includes:
Data transfer by Bluetooth; (needed it this weekend)
Functioning wifi; (need it 90% of the time)
Email that works for IMAP and POP3; (need all the time)
Ability to receive and download ALL attachments on the phone (email). (Need often)
Ability to stop ALL data roaming and keep apps from over riding. (When traveling, need all the time).
As for your list -
Data transfer by Bluetooth; (needed it this weekend) - Very small percentage of users "must" have this feature. Therefore, should Google really make it a priority?
Functioning wifi; (need it 90% of the time) - What's wrong with your Wifi? Mine works 100% of the time.
Email that works for IMAP and POP3; (need all the time) - Have you tried K-9? Excellent app and is the open sourced version of Android's Mail app.
Ability to receive and download ALL attachments on the phone (email). (Need often) - Yes, this should be fixed. Business folk cannot be slowed by their tech.
Ability to stop ALL data roaming and keep apps from over riding. (When traveling, need all the time). Agreed, there are enough users to justify the fix. Although, from what I've read, this is a much bigger issue. Google is based on "cloud computing" and is dependent on connectivity.
Fortunately Google will continue to better the OS. We'll have updates passed 1.5
As for your list - (And my response in italic):
Data transfer by Bluetooth; (needed it this weekend) - Very small percentage of users "must" have this feature. Therefore, should Google really make it a priority? In your world, maybe. I don't know any business user who doesn't need this feature. Plus, I can transfer files to and from my laptop even if I don't happen to have a cable in my back pocket.
Functioning wifi; (need it 90% of the time) - What's wrong with your Wifi? Mine works 100% of the time. Come on, this is a known issue -- that's why there are a half dozen apps to "fix" it.
Email that works for IMAP and POP3; (need all the time) - Have you tried K-9? Excellent app and is the open sourced version of Android's Mail app. K9 doesn't work with my very basic POP3 account, others have this issue; stock app works, but you cannot download all but a few attachments.
Ability to receive and download ALL attachments on the phone (email). (Need often) - Yes, this should be fixed. Business folk cannot be slowed by their tech. The phone "can" already do this.. just rename the extension on any file to *.jpg and it will allow you to download it. How is this a big fix?
Ability to stop ALL data roaming and keep apps from over riding. (When traveling, need all the time). Agreed, there are enough users to justify the fix. Although, from what I've read, this is a much bigger issue. Google is based on "cloud computing" and is dependent on connectivity. My son's iPhone can reliably shut down all data roaming when we are in Europe.
Fortunately Google will continue to better the OS. We'll have updates passed 1.5
By not allowing developers adequate time between an SDK release and a user release, Google is all but guaranteeing applications will not function properly on 1.5. There are already questions about WebViews bringing up the page in a browser instead of the application window, applications breaking when referencing other projects, button sizes being different across releases, etc.
Every other software company in existence releases OS/API upgrades to developers and allows them time to update their applications. Two-three weeks is hardly adequate time, and the SDK has only been finalized for, what, a day? Another company, perhaps you're familiar with them, has given developers at least three months to get ready for a v3.0 OS release.
As for your list -
Data transfer by Bluetooth; (needed it this weekend) - Very small percentage of users "must" have this feature. Therefore, should Google really make it a priority?
Functioning wifi; (need it 90% of the time) - What's wrong with your Wifi? Mine works 100% of the time.
Email that works for IMAP and POP3; (need all the time) - Have you tried K-9? Excellent app and is the open sourced version of Android's Mail app.
Ability to receive and download ALL attachments on the phone (email). (Need often) - Yes, this should be fixed. Business folk cannot be slowed by their tech.
Ability to stop ALL data roaming and keep apps from over riding. (When traveling, need all the time). Agreed, there are enough users to justify the fix. Although, from what I've read, this is a much bigger issue. Google is based on "cloud computing" and is dependent on connectivity.
Fortunately Google will continue to better the OS. We'll have updates passed 1.5
my god! plz dont ever type in yellow again!
It's the equivalent of building a house when the owner changes the blueprints every day versus waiting until after the owner agrees not to make any more modifications to the blueprints.
just like the flashlight for cupcake
For next time, I'd like to see a real early look and a few beta versions. I'd like to see a plan and a rhythm to development that programmers and authors can count on. I'd like to know 6, 9, or even 12 months in advance when the next major version is going to be. The Eclipse project proved this kind of planning is doable, not to mention very valuable, in nurturing an open commercial ecosystem. It would be great if Google could lead the Android community in the same direction.
Way to go google, alienating developers all the way.
"Weed out the lame apps?". Actually, most lame apps won't need re-writing. And developers will move to other platforms.
My .02,
Michael
1. We don't know when the OTA update is going to be. "A few days" is just a rumor as far as I'm concerned. I'll believe it when I hear it's actually being pushed out. Let's not forget how long the other OTA updates took to get out and they were MUCH smaller than 1.5 Until then I'm OK with some people in Spain not having some apps. But as far as the rest of the Vodaphone rollout, I agree we should've gotten an SDK a LONG time ago.
2. Big In Japan doesn't say what in 1.5 broke their app. I suspect a large part of that has to do with them using the Skyhook package. I know that they were enabling and disabling settings at will, now they won't be able to do that so easily so I'm sure that becomes a headache for them. However, in Google's own defense as far as that is concerned they were using APIs that Google said was going to change.
I myself am going to be hit big by this and 100,000 of my active installs are going to disappear overnight, with no way of getting them back.
3. We should get used to this. The original G1 was very rushed. The first release wasn't nearly as complete as it should've been any the current state of Android is not as complete as it should be.
4. A lot of this may not have been under Google's control. They have external contracts to consider. The rollout of Vodaphone was finalized months in advance. To put it simply. There weren't ready for this. Simple rock and a hard place. Should they have said to these companies, "We can't roll out the phone because the community hasn't had time to test the SDK?" I don't think so. There is much more at stake for Vodaphone and Google than there is for ShopSavvy and some dollar app companies.
4. A lot of this may not have been under Google's control. They have external contracts to consider. The rollout of Vodaphone was finalized months in advance. To put it simply. There weren't ready for this. Simple rock and a hard place. Should they have said to these companies, "We can't roll out the phone because the community hasn't had time to test the SDK?" I don't think so. There is much more at stake for Vodaphone and Google than there is for ShopSavvy and some dollar app companies.
It'd be even more loloworthy if Mr. Sharkey's application was found to be incompatible with 1.5.
It'd be even more loloworthy if Mr. Sharkey's application was found to be incompatible with 1.5.
Then I guess you never go shopping.
I have found it to be one of the best apps on the phone, and it's saved me a pile of dough.
IE, I had to get some tick medicine for my dogs. $60,- for a box with 3 applications at The pet store.
I bought it, went home, scanned it. And found it online for $22,-.
I ordered 3 of them right away.
I'm doing Home renovations, and needed a kitchen faucet.
I was at Lowes, and found a faucet i liked.
Scanned it in the store, and found it was at least $30,- MORE expensive everywhere else.
So, just with those 2 purchases I literally saved myself $100,- thanks to shop savvy.
I have found it to be one of the best apps on the phone, and it's saved me a pile of dough.
IE, I had to get some tick medicine for my dogs. $60,- for a box with 3 applications at The pet store.
I bought it, went home, scanned it. And found it online for $22,-.
I ordered 3 of them right away.
I'm doing Home renovations, and needed a kitchen faucet.
I was at Lowes, and found a faucet i liked.
Scanned it in the store, and found it was at least $30,- MORE expensive everywhere else.
So, just with those 2 purchases I literally saved myself $100,- thanks to shop savvy.
come on, are you really shocked? what kind of person ever takes the blame?!?!?!?!
I refuse to use shopsavvy on my phone now...that wifi business really annoyed me and well, I didn't appreciate them not owning up to it.
Even so, if the 1.5 update is pushed out in May, then we would have had at least 4 days with the final 1.5 SDK and an additional two weeks with the early release. So that would be rather close to the 2-3 weeks mentioned as a required time to update the apps.
Also, Google has been blogging about these changes for some time now and they have shown how to remain backwards compatible and how to deal with using new features while remaining compatible with previous versions. And if you would make a 1.5 only app, then they have shown how to mark that app as requiring 1.5, so that it can't be incorrectly installed on an older OS version.
As I understand it, based on the Google Developer blog, the only programs that will break are those that use unofficial API's and/or exploit security flaws.
There's also a change of the default button width that might affect the UI layout for some, but that's an easy fix. Also there's some changes affecting the maximum limit of nested items in the UI layout, but if you're hitting that limit, then you need to rethink your layout.
If your going to be a pioneer and develop apps for a smoking hot OS that haven't had time to settle yet, then you have to expect a bumpy ride.
as for file transfers, if youre on wifi and have your laptop handy, on air turns your device into a wireless networked drive, which is pretty handy to tell you the truth. sure, it's no device to device solution, but transferring from mac to sd card couldnt be easier, no wires needed.
id love to see obex added as a bt profile, but it's something i can wait for.
Have tried all the wifi fixes, and found one that works 90% of the time. I'll go back and give "keepwifi" another try in case of updates. Also, will give the on air idea a shot, thanks. However, there really is no excuse for a phone in this age, not having bluetooth data transfer ability. I was on a boat working a few days ago and got a call that my agent needed a script. Well, no wifi available. I was lucky that my son had a bunch of USB cables (ps3) on board so I could transfer the file to my phone and send it. My N80 had bluetooth, infrared and cable transfer ability. And, so far as wifi only sort of working...? Come on...
Have tried all the wifi fixes, and found one that works 90% of the time. I'll go back and give "keepwifi" another try in case of updates. Also, will give the on air idea a shot, thanks. However, thre really is no excuse for a phone in this age, not having bluetooth data transfer ability. I was on a boat working a few days ago and got a call that my agent needed a script. Well, no wifi available. I was lucky that my son had a bunch of USB cables (ps3) on board so I could transfer the file to my phone and send it. My N80 had bluetooth, infrared and cable transfer ability. And, so far as wifi only sort of working...? Come on...
that was the funniest thing since I read the Google blog.
I would agree with you, if only they hadn't introduced some rather annoying bugs. There's also a difference in blogging in vague terms about changes and actually seeing the APIs. And then match those changes against the known bugs, the most annoying of which is that transparent backgrounds are no longer transparent.
My app doesn't use any hidden APIs (how would I know about them in the first place?), nor does it have view hierarchy issues, and still doesn't display properly on 1.5.
Finding what is broken and why takes more time than the few days I had so far.
Also, some of us are doing this not as a full time job and put apps in the market for free. Now the users get p*ssed off because the app doesn't work as expected.
Michael
Even so, if the 1.5 update is pushed out in May, then we would have had at least 4 days with the final 1.5 SDK and an additional two weeks with the early release. So that would be rather close to the 2-3 weeks mentioned as a required time to update the apps.
Also, Google has been blogging about these changes for some time now and they have shown how to remain backwards compatible and how to deal with using new features while remaining compatible with previous versions. And if you would make a 1.5 only app, then they have shown how to mark that app as requiring 1.5, so that it can't be incorrectly installed on an older OS version.
As I understand it, based on the Google Developer blog, the only programs that will break are those that use unofficial API's and/or exploit security flaws.
There's also a change of the default button width that might affect the UI layout for some, but that's an easy fix. Also there's some changes affecting the maximum limit of nested items in the UI layout, but if you're hitting that limit, then you need to rethink your layout.
If your going to be a pioneer and develop apps for a smoking hot OS that haven't had time to settle yet, then you have to expect a bumpy ride.
I also found the new radio abysmal for wifi in the haykuron builds, which is why I went back to RC33.